Season 4 – Episode 9 – Gloves will keep us together

Synopsis: Reverend Thorne goads Amaar into a charity prize fight and Amaar tries to back out, until he realizes the beating will be less painful than the loss of face for the Muslims. Meanwhile, Sarah forgets to give Yasir a message from Thorne about the church reno, prompting Yasir to threaten to quit over Thorne’s unreasonable demands.

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

Videos courtesy of Mydien

What did you think of this episode? How does it compare to the previous episode? Are there any topics from the episode that you want to discuss?

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328 Comments

Filed under Season 4 - Episode 9

328 responses to “Season 4 – Episode 9 – Gloves will keep us together

  1. nisreen

    that was actually a pretty good episode 🙂 didnt drag on like some of the other ones recently..even though it was slightly painful watching amaar get beat up like that .. oh well he won in the end tho which i REALLY wanted to see, that Reverend is really getting on my nerves…

  2. seekerofthesacred

    Isn’t boxing impermissible in Islam? The Prophet (P.B.U.H) forbade striking on the face, and he himself never raised his hand to strike save on the battlefield…

    Peace

  3. Gene

    Many of you have heard about a Best Buy ad that that wished American Muslims a “Happy Eid al Adha.”

    Muslims need to understand that this isn’t so much about Eid al Adha but about the double standard that exists today with Christian symbols and expressions being practically banned in our society but expressions of other faiths, particularly Islam being expressed.

    We see it in the schools and now we see it in the shopping centers. There is a war on Christmas going on (while at the same time stories are cashing in on Christmas spending).

    Last year in the UK a Muslim organization defended Christmas and said that expressions of Christmas during this time shouldn’t be banned in their country. This is quite appreciated and I hope they do the same this year.

    Best Buy will wish American Muslims a “Happy Eid al Adha” but will not dare use the word “Merry Christmas” in their advertisement. I wish Christians would stick to their principles and boycott Best Buy.

    And I would hope that Muslims realize that this isn’t necessarily an act against them but a defense of Christianity and a fight against the ever increasing war against Christmas in our society.

  4. AC

    Hey, Gene, your cut-and-paste skills are admirable. Unfortunately, no one cares. Take your nonsense elsewhere.

  5. seekerofthesacred

    Seriously Gene, if you are going to copy and paste it once, leave it at that. Don’t repeat it all over the same blog. Who says you have monoply over Christian “principles”?

  6. Kevin

    Baber askes Amaar if he saw “Million Dollar Baby” and he nods his head acknowledging that he did see it.

    That movie is PG-13. It has profanity in it with 5 uses of the f-word.

    So what is an Imam like Amaar doing watching such a movie? By the same token what is Baber doing watching such a movie?

    Baber is wrong about them pulling life support from the main character. She died by assisted suicide by injection. There’s also two other attempted suicides with bloody results.

    Surely Muslims don’t believe in suicide.

    Um, wait, let me rephrase that.

    Surely Muslim don’t believe in suicide unless it is in the name of Allah when attacking the enemy through some suicide act that takes out some of their enemy with them.

    They don’t believe in assisted suicide do they? That movie promoted it.

  7. Kevin

    Oh, in “assisted suicide” I don’t mean having a comrade that participates in a suicide attack.

    I am talking about when one person kills another by the person’s request usually because that person is suffering a painful medical condition.

  8. Gus

    I don’t think one gets their 70 virgins for killing themselves because they have a prolonged painful medical condition.

    By the way, do female suicide bombers get 70 virgins as well?

  9. seekerofthesacred

    For a start, Gus, have you any idea the sources that Islamic law is derived?

  10. I

    To seek of sacred:
    Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t the prophet (PBUH) engage in fun activities like wrestling and such?

    To Gene:
    I am glad that Best Buy wished Eid-Al Adha to Muslims because at this time we need all the support. On the other hand, I don’t see how Christians are being attacked in all of this. Aren’t there Christmas deals everywhere? Don’t all stores have Christmas trees during times of Christmas?

    To Kevin:
    Ammar may have watched when he was less religious. Also, just because they watched does not mean that they particularly support the view a movie presents. Also, Muslims DO NOT believe in suicide at all EVEN if it is ‘for the cause of Allah’ or as an attack against an enemy. This is made clear in the Quran. AND just because you see reports on tv of Muslims as suicide bombers does not mean its supported by Islam. Please read up on the faith!

    To Gus:
    Suicide bombing is forbidden in Islam and any person who engages in it goes to HELL (shocker!).

  11. Gene

    I,

    Christmas is being secularized. Sure they most often have the external trapping like lights and sometimes trees, but many stores won’t even wish people “Merry Christmas” anymore.

    All pretty hypocritical because of course the Christmas season is the biggest time of year for retailers.

    I wish that Christians would stop the gift giving practice at Christmas time. That would make the retailers pay for all this “happy holidays” stuff. But I know that would be hard for the children as they would have to hear about their friends getting gifts and not them. Perhaps the adults should stop giving gifts to each other. Then all but the toy retailers would suffer.

  12. Gene

    I am glad that Best Buy wished Eid-Al Adha to Muslims because at this time we need all the support.

    It’s the DOUBLE STANDARD that makes it so offensive.

    Surely I you can see that.

  13. Tim

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3699565/Muslim-lawyer-Anjem-Choudary-brands-Christmas-evil.html

    Muslim preacher Anjem Choudary has branded Christmas “evil” in a sermon posted on the internet.

  14. Greg

    I agree with what Gene posted above.

    I also think it’s wrong because it specifically singled out Islam. If they want to say they did it because they believe in “diversity” then why didn’t they wish Hindus Happy Diwali? That kind of blows their “diversity” excuse out of the window doesn’t it.

    Christians and Christmas are constantly under attack in our society. We only have to go back to this show where they broke a statue of Christ and 2012 where they destroyed Christian sites to see that’s the case.

    I bet Best Buy and others in our society would show more respect to Christians if Christians started issuing Fatwas.

  15. seekerofthesacred

    By the way, Anjem does NOT represent the opinions which the majority of Islamic scholars took throughout the centuries.

    The companions of the Messenger PBUH indeed did encourage wrestling though expressly forbade striking the face as it is considered sacred. For more info: http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/boxing.htm

    The Prophet expressly forbade suicide of any type, and the punishment would be the hell-fire if a person did commit the act. It is interesting that in Arabic, the opposite of gratitude (Shukr) is Disbelief (Kufr). You will find that the crazy opinions are given credence in the media yet the relied upon scholarly view i.e. that of the majority of classical Islamic scholars is often sidelined.

    Peace

  16. seekerofthesacred

    By the way, when will the next episode be aired?

  17. usman

    can the admin of this blog do their job with some of these comments. They r posting videos in the comment section!! come on!! not to mention they are filled with islamophobic sentiments. I understand free speech and all of that, but this is getting out of hand.

  18. Tim

    You are just trying to censor speech. I don’t find much of what has been posted as so called “islamophobic”. That’s just a word you use to stifle debate.

  19. MarriedaMuslim

    Let me just point out being married to a muslim that he watches a ton of movies. Some that I don’t even like. He doesn’t care if the f* Bomb is dropped one time or 1000 times. Just because he’s a religious leader doesn’t make Amar not human. It just makes him more fallible to human problems. So as for not being permissible, it all depends on the culture you’re raised in. What you people are messing up here, is that culture and religion are the same thing and they aren’t.

    I was rather ecstatic about the Best Buy thing because it shows that the American culture is growing and changing, which is desperately needed. It also showed how humans in general resist social change because of habitus. If you don’t know the word please go look it up in an anthropological text book.

    Gene, what happened to christians being about love and “bringing the the word to all the fuzzy-wuzzies” (Mal Renoylds) Obviously I’ve been watching waaaaay too much Firefly. Also to paraphrase the great Capt. Mal “If [we’re] your mission, Shepherd, best give it up. You’re welcome on my boat. God ain’t.”

    Just fyi for all you christmas loving folk out there, it’s based on the Pagan celebration of Yule on the Winter Solistice. Especially the decorated tree bit, so if you want to be so fussy then you better take down the tree. While you’re at it, you may want to kill Santa Claus too, since he’s not at all related to the birth of Jesus. And btw Jesus would’ve been born in March. You don’t believe me, go look it up in a decent history book. In the meantime, get over your ethnocentric selves.

    Also just an interesting side note, my muslim family has Christmas. Not in the same way christians would view it, but they give gifts and feast and what not.

    What is evil, Tim, is the fact that people hate other people. Especially during this time of year. The fact that I see people on here filling the page with propagandist BS, annoys me. I come here to watch the show, that’s it. It’s my chance to unwind, and have a good laugh. The fact that this is the only interaction with muslims for some folk is tough, so some of you on here may not understand it, or may mistake it for actuality. The problem is, that this is a show. It’s fiction. To analyze it to death, is not what it is meant for. It’s meant for entertainment, and geared to the masses by a large production company. To read into it more than that, and you all are just fooling yourselves. It tells you more about the culture of Canada than it does about Islam as a religion. I recommend going and taking a class at a local University for those of you who are so ignorant about the religion, or better yet, go to a mosque and ask an Imam.

    For those curious about how popular media is tied to a country’s culture I recommend reading Lila abu Lughod. She’s a very famous anthropologist who did a lot of work on Media and Egyptian culture. This book is good:
    Dramas of Nationhood: The Politics of Television in Egypt.

    Get educated please.

  20. seekerofthesacred

    [quote]So as for not being permissible, it all depends on the culture you’re raised in. [/quote]

    That’s absurd. If you call yourself a Muslim, you have to agree with the scriptures: The Qur’an and Sunnah. Do you agree with me here? If you do, then it is authentically reported from the Messenger PBUH that striking on the face is forbidden. It is quote simple.

    It is you who is blurring the difference between doing something but knowing it is wrong, and doing something which God declares wrong but believing it is right. Fallible refers to being prone to error. The key is acknowledging sincerely that it, indeed, is an error.

    Education includes learning your religion before making judgments such as declaring that culture defines what is impermissible. I recommend you pick up a primer on Islamic legal methodology (Usul al-Fiqh).

    Peace

  21. seekerofthesacred

    “It is quote simple” was supposed to be “It is quite simple”

  22. Would a Reverend really be saying “whoopass?”

  23. Greg

    What you people are messing up here, is that culture and religion are the same thing and they aren’t.

    I think that is a KEY thing to understand. Apart from the religious significance of Christmas, it is part of America’s CULTURAL heritiage whereas Eid-Al Adha isn’t. And many people in America celebrate the holiday without putting any Christian religious significance to it.

    So, putting religion aside, American stores not acknowledging Christmas isn’t only an attack on Christians. It is an attack on American culture.

    Best Buy didn’t even wish people Happy Thanksgiving which is pretty much a secular holiday (with of course a religious origin as most of our cultural elements do have). Again another attack on American Culture.

    America was founded as a CHRISTAN country. Now that doesn’t mean we force anyone into practicing the Christian religion but it does mean that we honor our Christian heritage. Just like you would expect Islamic countries to honor their Islamic heritage and Israel to honor it’s Jewish heritage.

    After all what is a country but its border, language, and culture. Weaken even one of these elements and you weaken the country. And in America all three of these elements are being weaken. We are seeing a decay from within.

  24. Greg

    What you people are messing up here, is that culture and religion are the same thing and they aren’t.

    I think that is a KEY thing to understand. Apart from the religious significance of Christmas, it is part of America’s CULTURAL heritiage whereas Eid-Al Adha isn’t. And many people in America celebrate the holiday without putting any Christian religious significance to it.

    So, putting religion aside, American stores not acknowledging Christmas isn’t only an attack on Christians. It is an attack on American culture.

    Best Buy didn’t even wish people Happy Thanksgiving which is pretty much a secular holiday (with of course a religious origin as most of our cultural elements do have). Again another attack on American Culture.

    America was founded as a CHRISTIAN country. Now that doesn’t mean we force anyone into practicing the Christian religion but it does mean that we honor our Christian heritage. Just like you would expect Islamic countries to honor their Islamic heritage and Israel to honor its Jewish heritage.

    After all what is a country but its border, language, and culture. Weaken even one of these elements and you weaken the country. And in America all three of these elements are being weaken. We are seeing a decay from within.

  25. Greg

    What you people are messing up here, is that culture and religion are the same thing and they aren’t.

    MarriedaMuslim makes a critical point here. You have in America Christianity as a religion and Christianity as a cultural heritage.

    No one is forcing anyone to practice the Christian religion, but as a society we should honor our Christian heritage as a country.

    That is what makes “Happy Holidays” so offensive. It is a purposeful effort to deny American Heritage.

  26. Tim

    What you people are messing up here, is that culture and religion are the same thing and they aren’t.

    Agreed. I don’t hate Muslims or Islam. In fact I respect how committed they are to their religion.

    WHAT I HATE is the cultures where most of the Muslims come from.

  27. Greg

    And again we need to stress the hypocrisy here.

    Big Buy will not use the word “Merry Christmas” as they see it as a religious holiday BUT they will wish people a happy Eid-Al Adha which is of course a religious holiday.

    So either they are being disingenuous or perhaps they don’t really consider Islam a real religion.

    Yeah perhaps Muslims should see this as DISRESPECTING Islam as a real religion.

  28. Susan G.

    One of the things I have always wondered about is why does Baber wear those funny foreign clothes.

    Sure Canada is a free country and I would never bar such clothing and I respect his right to wear such clothes but I do HIS motivation after living in Canada so long.

    Why does he want to look like he just got off the boat as the saying goes? What does that say about his desire to associate even at the most basic level with Canadian society? Wearing those clothes makes it seem like he is projecting contempt for Canada, the country who has provided him with so much.

    There’s no religious requirement to wear such clothing, so why does he do it? Again I am not talking about his right to do so as I would fight to the death to protect such a right, but I am trying to get to his motivation for doing so. In the past people didn’t want to look like they “just got off the boat” But here he is living in Canada for at least 20 or probably 30 or more years and he still looks like he came over yesterday.

  29. Susan G.

    but I do question HIS motivation after living in Canada so long.

    Again this isn’t about his right to do so as I would fight to the death for his right to do so, but I am kind of offended by the contempt for Canada that is projected. It is like he doesn’t want to have anything to do with Canada not even wearing the same type of clothes. There’s Western clothes that one can wear that are modest. In fact most of the male clothes are. And I am right about it not being a requirement for Islam, aren’t I?

    Come On Baber you have been in the country long enough not to look like you just got off the boat.

  30. Greg

    Also, why the singular focus on Islam? If this was about so called “diversity” why didn’t Best Buy wish Hindus Happy Diwali?

    Their single focus was on Muslims. Why?

    Perhaps they aren’t afraid of Hindus (or of course Christians) like they are Muslims and they hoped that by wishing happy Eid-Al Adha Muslims will consider that when planning their suicide bombings and would be sure to leave them off as a target.

    Perhaps Best Buy’s greeting was an act of Islamophobia.

  31. Nahida

    So as for not being permissible, it all depends on the culture you’re raised in. What you people are messing up here, is that culture and religion are the same thing and they aren’t.

    That’s absurd. If you call yourself a Muslim, you have to agree with the scriptures: The Qur’an and Sunnah. Do you agree with me here? If you do, then it is authentically reported from the Messenger PBUH that striking on the face is forbidden. It is quote simple.

    seekerofthesacred, she was talking about movies, not striking in the face… And I’m pretty sure she meant culturally permissible, not religiously, since in the very next sentence she outlines the difference…

  32. Nahida

    Wearing those clothes makes it seem like he is projecting contempt for Canada, the country who has provided him with so much.

    Susan, as the daughter of an immigrant I can tell you that it’s less likely he has any contempt for Canada and more likely that he simply feels comfortable in those particular clothes. After all, he’s probably worn them for most of his life.

    I would die if I couldn’t wear jeans. I grew up in them.

  33. Nahida

    Perhaps Best Buy’s greeting was an act of Islamophobia.

    Nah, it sounds more like they’re trying to appear on top of things. They won’t say Merry Christmas cause it’s not as much of a “hot topic.”

    Lame.

  34. Susan G.

    Still where is the desire to “not look like you just got off the boat” that past generations of immigrants had?

  35. Greg

    Yeah, modern day Christians are so lame.

    They won’t fight for themselves any more.

    I bet Best Buy would start saying Merry Christmas if Christians started issuing Fatwas.

  36. Nahida

    Why don’t you just try the Christian version of Fatwas.

    Boycotting.

  37. Nahida

    (I was joking. About it being the Christian version I mean. Just clarifying since this forum seems to be humorless.)

  38. Greg

    I won’t be buying from Big Buy again, that’s for sure.

  39. Nahida

    I thought it was Best Buy….

    Greg do you even know what you’re boycotting?

    LOL

  40. Greg

    Typo, sorry.

    Yeah, Best Buy, I know what the store looks like.

    And no, I will never buy from there again.

  41. Nahida

    Still where is the desire to “not look like you just got off the boat” that past generations of immigrants had?

    Stuff happens and things change? The one thing Conservatives seem to have in common is a love affair with the past. Every generation thinks the past was better than it really was for the people who actually lived in it. Susan, if he has no contempt for his new country and is wearing these clothes simply because he feels comfortable in them then what’s the problem? You said yourself you’d fight for his right to wear them. Now you sound like you personally have a problem with it…

  42. Nahida

    And for people who have a love affair with the past, I would think you’d understand more than anyone how tough it is to leave old habits like the way you dress behind.

    The immigrants who came here before came with ambitions. They didn’t feel like they had the same rights and were set on proving that they deserved them. They possibly could have seen blending in with those who where already considered “real Americans” as a means to do so.

    Baber didn’t have anything to prove. He was provided for very well by his new country and accepted as Canadian because we’ve come to understand that it isn’t the clothes that makes the citizen.

  43. Susan G.

    Yeah personally have a problem with it and yeah I would fight for his right to wear what he wants to wear. Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive.

    But how should one expect to be treated as a fellow citizen when he dresses like a foreigner? There is something to be said about “when in Rome.”

    If Baber wants people to always look at him as a stranger instead of a neighbour this is the way to do it.

  44. Susan G.

    Yeah personally I have a problem with it and yeah I would fight for his right to wear what he wants to wear. Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive.

    Again, I am not debating about his right to wear the clothes – just his motivations and how those clothes project themselves.

  45. Tim

    …it isn’t the clothes that makes the citizen.

    No, but it’s part of it.

  46. MarriedaMuslim

    seekerofthesacred, Um I’m not muslim, my husband is. I never said I was muslim, you assumed, and assuming stuff “makes and ‘ass’ out of ‘u’ and ‘me’. I’m…I was raised christian, but I don’t do religion. I don’t consider myself an expert on the religion, well on any religion. I focus more on culture, and I fail to understand much of religion. It’s a series of beliefs for me that groups of people create. These beliefs have an effect on culture, but they are not the end all and be all of a culture, is what I was getting at earlier. I was citing the example of my husband who watches movies that promote much that would be considered bad in Islam (and christianity and any other peaceful religion) for that matter. Just cause it’s bad according to religion, doesn’t mean that it’s not practiced. Another example is my Bosnian friend who is muslim, but he drinks (alcohol) like a fish.

    Thank you Nahida for realizing what I was saying about the movies. What you say about habits is what I mean by habitus. Baber is merely following his cultural expectations, which are based from a different culture, not Canadian culture. Assimilation is difficult. Trust me I speak from experience. Things don’t make sense when you’re trying to fit in. You cling to what is familiar in times like those. Culture shock sucks. While he is far past the culture shock, in many ways he is being stubborn, but in the end it is his choice. I think it makes his character stronger. (I’m critiquing the director’s and writers’ choices here.)

    Greg, you do make a good point about it being part of our cultural heritage, and to be honest I would not miss my church’s candlelight service unless I have to, but due to the increasing pressure around the world, more and more businesses are trying to globalize. I feel that, that plays a part in this as well. However, I do disagree with you that happy holidays is offensive. I much prefer it, mainly because I have friends who are pagan, jewish, muslim, and every other religion under the sun. I find that most religions have celebrations this time of year, and happy holidays allows me to send the same card to 100 people without offending them, and it makes my life simpler. While it may offend some people, and I will always get a religious card from certain friends and family members, I also don’t care. Not caring really helps.

    To clarify before, when I jumped to Amar being more fallible, I mean his character in the show. You have a religious leader, you automatically have them face down many trials and tribulations associated with their “right to lead” a group of people. Each success shows that they are a good leader, where each failing shows that they are not a good leader. This is a common theme in many tv shows, and is a repeated theme on LMOTP. Like when Amar first showed up in town, and Baber was taking care of everything. Sorry, I was trying to tie the points together, and failed miserably. Just because he’s a religious leader doesn’t mean he’s not an active participant in Canadian culture. They are two separate beasts that must be conquered individually. Same goes in real life. People can be religious and be strong believers in whatever faith they follow, but that doesn’t mean that they do not participate in socio-cultural events, like coming of age rituals. Most coming of age rituals are not based on religion, but on arbitrary ideas of what a person should be doing at a certain age/point in their life.

    To restate something I feel is very important to point out here again: The problem is, that this is a show. It’s fiction. To analyze it to death, is not what it is meant for. It’s meant for entertainment, and geared to the masses by a large production company. To read into it more than that, and you all are just fooling yourselves. It tells you more about the culture of Canada than it does about Islam as a religion.

  47. MarriedaMuslim

    Oh btw I forgot! The actor that plays Yasir was on Castle last week! You all should go watch it! My two fave shows coming together in one was an amazing geek fest!

    • Greg

      Carlo Rota was also on the USA Series “White Collar”, again playing a bad guy.

      Minorities do have a point when they say that they are way too often portrayed as the bad guys. It seems like all the jobs Carlo Rota can get apart from LMOTP are shows where he is the bad guy.

      But on the good side, villains also make for the most interesting of characters and some actors say they find portraying villains as among their favorite characters to play.

      Also in each case the villain Carlo Rota played was a sophisticated villain with a touch of class.

  48. Susan G.

    I really think that Baber should participate in the culture he has lived in for decades by wearing western clothes.

    I commend Yasir for doing so.

  49. Greg

    Happy Holidays is offensive in America because it is a deliberate attempt to minimize Christmas here which is an ATTACK upon America’s CULTURAL heritage.

  50. Susan G.

    But how should one expect to be treated as a fellow citizen when he dresses like a foreigner? There is something to be said about “when in Rome.”

    If Baber wants people to always look at him as a stranger instead of a neighbour this is the way to do it.

    I just wanted to emphasize that point again, because I think it is a very important one that MarriedaMuslim and Nahida hasn’t really addressed.

  51. Nahida

    But how should one expect to be treated as a fellow citizen when he dresses like a foreigner? There is something to be said about “when in Rome.”

    Susan, I know a lot of people who don’t have a problem with treating people as the citizens they are even when they dress as a foreigner. The issue is yours.

  52. Nahida

    Happy Holidays is offensive in America because it is a deliberate attempt to minimize Christmas here which is an ATTACK upon America’s CULTURAL heritage.

    Thanks for the random declaration Greg…

    I interpreted Happy Holidays as being a summarizing way to include everyone, not as minimizing any holiday in particular.

  53. Nahida

    Also, I don’t know anyone who’s offended when someone tells them “Happy Holidays.” I doubt it’s “offensive in America.” I don’t know in what part of the country you live, but over here no one has that kind of a complex…

  54. Nahida

    If you all lived back when the original pagan holiday was turned into Christmas you’d probably be outraged. But you’re all okay with it now.

    (Christians have balls at all the wrong times. You compromise your religion when you shouldn’t, but you also sail on massive manslaughter when you shouldn’t…)

    If you lived in the future, you’d want the present. My point is, you’re always going to cling to a time other than your own. It’s tiring.

  55. Nahida

    Of course, in times of compromising a religion and declaring a pointless rampage of murder by its name, it’s hardly about the religion anyway.

  56. Tim

    When I hear “Happy Holidays” what I hear is Go to Hell Christmas.

    Well if that’s how they feel perhaps I shouldn’t be giving them my money!

  57. Tim

    They might as well just go spit on the flag!

  58. Greg

    “Happy Holidays” = America Sucks!

    Well if a store hates Christmas and America so much as to wish me “Happy Holidays” then perhaps the owners don’t want me to spend my AMERICAN money for CHRISTMAS shopping.

    “Happy Holidays” = I’m not shopping there!

  59. Gene

    When I go into a store and someone wishes me “Happy Holidays” I go, And, which holidays might that be?

    They usually go, uh, uh.

    Then I go, well obviously this isn’t the store for me. I won’t waste your time ever again.

  60. Greg

    It should be MERRY CHRISTMAS.

    Look, no one is forcing anyone to midnight mass and whatever holiday one wants to celebrate at home or with friends and family, that’s totally up to them, or if they don’t want to celebrate any holiday, it’s up to them.

    But America is a CHRISTAN society cultural. It is part of our CULTURAL heritage. Therefore as a society we should focus on Christmas.

    To do other than that is destroying a fundamental aspect of our cultural heritage and many if not most of the people who wish people “Happy Holidays” realizes that.

    Borders, Language and Culture – without any one of the three you aren’t really a country. But now in America all three are under attack.

    • Tim

      Culturally America is a Christian Country.

      Chop that part of American heritage away and all spiritual people are in trouble.

      This is all about the so called Secular Humanists taking control. Sure they are acting like your friends right now because they believe you are against Christians and they are going on the theory that the enemy of the enemy is my friend. But everything they hate about Christians are the same things that Muslims are. They hate our values… you have values. They hate our commitment to God… you are committed to God. In the end, if they are successful in taking Christian influence out of our society (and they are doing a pretty good job of that right now) they are going to have to turn on you and take you out next. Make no mistake about that.

      We really need to be allies, not Muslims and Secular Humanists.

  61. Greg

    By the way, I checked on this Israeli web site, and for some reason they are having all these Hanukkah activities. Nope, not a Winter Festival among them.

    I wonder why that is?

    http://funinjerusalem.com/2009/12/hanukkah/

    Oh, I don’t know perhaps….

    ISRAEL is an Jewish Nation with a Jewish Heritage and therefore supports as a society the Jewish culture.

    I wonder how many Christmas Trees will be put up in Saudi Arabia this year?

    Pretty easy to guess – not even one.

    And point is I wouldn’t expect them to. Saudi Arabia has an Islamic heritage.

    Just like America has a Christian heritage.

    Again this is about the Cultural Heritage aspects of Christmas, not the religious ones.

  62. Tim

    I was reading the events they were having and one of them was a Chanukah Candle Lighting at the Western Wall.

    It wasn’t a Holiday Candle Lighting. Nor was it a Winter Candle Lighting. It was a Chanukah Candle Lighting.

    As it should be, for after all they do live in Israel.

    And I live in America. At least I used to. Some days it is getting pretty hard to tell though.

    MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL AMERICANS OUT THERE! Happy Holidays is just an attack upon our culture!

  63. Kevin

    Let me just point out being married to a muslim that he watches a ton of movies. Some that I don’t even like. He doesn’t care if the f* Bomb is dropped one time or 1000 times.

    How can anyone committed to his or her religion, be it Christianity or Islam go to a movie where swear words are so commonly used. It goes against principle.

    It was wrong for Amaar to do so. It would be wrong for Thorne to do so. And it was wrong for Baber to do so.

    Amaar, being “the Imam of Mercy” has a standard that he must uphold.

    • MarriedaMuslim

      Only if you’re sheltered and don’t believe in cussing. It’s called being liberal. You should try it sometime, it’s quite freeing. LOL. He swears more in Arabic at stupid drivers than he does in English.

      “The point of cussing is that it ain’t appropriate!” ~Kaylee

      • Kevin

        Cursing isn’t moral. It isn’t a moral thing to do.

        And doesn’t Christianity and Islam teach us to do the moral thing?

      • MarriedaMuslim

        But the problem is culture! Just because it isn’t moral doesn’t mean it’s not practiced. Just because it’s not supposed to be done, doesn’t mean that it isn’t. Like people cheating on their spouses, it happens all the time. I’m not saying that it’s right, I’m merely saying that’s how life is and what happens. Just because a religion tells you it’s wrong, doesn’t mean it stops you from doing it. All people are like that. Christian, Jews, Muslims, everyone. You don’t seem to understand that just because people believe in a god and a hell and what not, that’s not going to stop them from doing what they WANT to do. But now you are getting into psychology which is not my field at all.

  64. Greg

    If you lived in the future, you’d want the present.

    No, I would want to live in the 1950s. All except the racism part. There’s no getting around the fact that was wrong.

    But we threw out the baby with the bath water.

  65. Greg

    http://www.clevelandseniors.com/forever/txtbw.htm

    You could hardly see for all the snow,
    Spread the rabbit ears as far as they go.
    Pull a chair up to the TV set,
    “Good night, David; Good night, Chet.”

    Depending on the channel you tuned
    You got Rob and Laura – or Ward and June.
    It felt so good, felt so right.
    Life looked better in black and white.

    I Love Lucy, The Real McCoys
    Dennis the Menace, the Cleaver boys
    Rawhide, Gunsmoke, Wagon Train
    Superman, Jimmy & Lois Lane.

    Father Knows Best, Patty Duke
    Rin Tin Tin and Lassie too,
    Donna Reed on Thursday night–
    Life looked better in black and white.

    I wanna go back to black and white.
    Everything always turned out right.
    Simple people, simple lives
    Good guys always won the fights.

    Now nothing is the way it seems
    In living color on the TV screen.
    Too many murders, too much fight,
    I wanna go back to black and white

    In God they trusted, in bed they slept.
    A promise made was a promise kept.
    They never cussed or broke their vows.
    They’d never make the network now.

    But if I could, I’d rather be
    In a TV town in ’53.
    It felt so good, felt so right
    Life looked better in black and white.

    I’d trade all the channels on the satellite
    If I could just turn back the clock tonight
    To when everybody knew wrong from right
    Life was better in black and white!

    —–

    That is why I really do like Little Mosque on the Prairie. It does seem like a return to the shows of old. Except for when they attack Christianity. But of all the comedies out there Little Mosque on the Prairie is one of the few out there that doesn’t rely on sexual situations for its humor.

  66. Tim

    Actually if we aren’t talking about technological advances but only culture, I believe the best time would have been the 1890s. You know, the time Anne of Green Gables was set in.

    We have sure lost a lot as a society.

  67. Grant

    You know what I find so interesting is that Amaar unintentionally used the same technique that the great Mohammad Ali used.

    Ali would dance around the first few rounds tiring his opponent out. And then he would strike.

    He was and still is the Greatest!

  68. Greg

    Dashing through the snow
    In a one horse open sleigh
    O’er the fields we go
    Laughing all the way
    Bells on bob tails ring
    Making spirits bright
    What fun it is to laugh and sing
    A sleighing song tonight

    Oh, jingle bells, jingle bells
    Jingle all the way
    Oh, what fun it is to ride
    In a one horse open sleigh
    Jingle bells, jingle bells
    Jingle all the way
    Oh, what fun it is to ride
    In a one horse open sleigh

  69. Greg

    It’s beginning to look a lot like Christmas

    Ev’rywhere you go;

    Take a look in the five and ten glistening once again

    With candy canes and silver lanes aglow.

    It’s beginning to look a lot like Christmas

    Toys in ev’ry store

    But the prettiest sight to see is the holly that will be

    On your own front door.

    A pair of hopalong boots and a pistol that shoots

    Is the wish of Barney and Ben;

    Dolls that will talk and will go for a walk

    Is the hope of Janice and Jen;

    And Mom and Dad can hardly wait for school to start again.

    It’s beginning to look a lot like Christmas

    Ev’rywhere you go;

    There’s a tree in the Grand Hotel, one in the park as well,

    The sturdy kind that doesn’t mind the snow.

    It’s beginning to look a lot like Christmas;

    Soon the bells will start,

    And the thing that will make them ring is the carol that you sing

    Right within your heart.

  70. Greg

    Yeah Tim 1890 or so would be my second choice. But I still believe like from 1946-1955 or so would be my first choice.

    And yeah, I am talking culturally wise, for we are very, very lucky about living with the modern technology we have now.

  71. seekerofthesacred

    [quote]There’s no religious requirement to wear such clothing, so why does he do it? Again I am not talking about his right to do so as I would fight to the death to protect such a right, but I am trying to get to his motivation for doing so.[/quote]

    People have different motivations. In Islam, there is a strong notion of loving and following the Messenger of God P.B.U.H, thus those that incline towards this often wish to imitate the Prophet’s dress. In Islam, one is rewarded for such an intention, thus the motivation to wear the dress of the prophet. (e.g. http://bit.ly/4XMbX5). I usually wear it at prayer times and when I attend Islamic Lessons, but others may choose to wear it permenantly, and I don’t see anything wrong with that.

  72. Susan G.

    Oh, so there is a religious reason to wear such clothes.

    Okay, then I don’t have a problem.

  73. Kal

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/Radical-Islam-gaining-ground-in-US/articleshow/5328516.cms

    WASHINGTON: Long-feared by US intelligence, Muslim radicalization is gaining momentum in the US, hit by a spate of recent cases featuring youthsrecruited and trained overseas for jihad, analysts say.

    The latest case — five US nationals arrested in Pakistan on Wednesday on suspicion of plotting an attack — deepened concern that militant Islamist groups are successfully enlisting potential attackers inside the US, much as they have in Britain.

    “We also as a community realize there is a problem,” Nihad Awad told reporters in announcing that his organization, the Council on American Islamic Relations, had steered worried parents of the five to the FBI. He and others insisted the problem involved only a small minority of the Muslim community in US.

    “We’ve known for several years that al-Qaida and its allies like Lashkar-e-Taiba have put a high priority on recruiting assets in the Pakistani communities in the US, and the UK, the rest of the world,” said Bruce Riedel, a former CIA official.

    Riedel, who led a White House review of US strategy in the Af-Pak area earlier this year, said a recruit with a US, UK or Canadian passport is “a gold mine for them.” “What they need are people who are not going to arouse any suspicion when they arrive at JFK, or Washington-Dulles (airports). It’s a high priority for them.”

  74. Kal

    Much of this article is the same but there’s a few additional stuff.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091211/ts_alt_afp/pakistanusunrestarrestsradicalization

    WASHINGTON (AFP) – Long-feared by US intelligence, Muslim radicalization is gaining momentum in the United States, hit by a spate of recent cases featuring youths recruited and trained overseas for jihad, analysts say.

    The latest case — five US nationals arrested in Pakistan Wednesday on suspicion of plotting an attack — deepened concern that militant Islamist groups are successfully enlisting potential attackers inside the United States, much as they have in Britain.

    “We also as a community realize there is a problem,” Nihad Awad told reporters in announcing that his organization, the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), had steered worried parents of the five to the FBI.

    He and others insisted the problem involved only a small minority of the Muslim community in the United States, but the implications remain disquieting because of how easily US nationals can move across borders or within the United States. Related article: FBI questions terror suspects

    “We’ve known for several years that Al-Qaeda and its allies like Lashkar-e-Taiba have put a high priority on recruiting assets in the Pakistani communities in the United States, and the United Kingdom, the rest of the world,” said Bruce Riedel, a former CIA official.

    Riedel, who led a White House review of US strategy in Afghanistan and Pakistan earlier this year, said a recruit with a US, British or Canadian passport is “a gold mine for them.”

    “Put it this way: they know that 15 young Saudi males are not going to get into the United States on one-way visas to do flight training,” he told AFP.

    “What they need are people who are not going to arouse any suspicion when they arrive at JFK, or LAX or Washington-Dulles (airports). It’s a high priority for them.”

    The US intelligence community warned in a 2007 assessment that the spread of radical Internet websites and a growing number of “self-generating” cells in Western countries “indicate that the radical and violent segment of the West’s Muslim population is expanding, including in the United States.”

    But it noted that the “internal Muslim terrorist threat is not likely to be as severe as it is in Europe.”

    In the past year alone, however, there have been a dozen cases in the United States involving jihadist plots, attacks and other incidents, some involving homegrown radicals but others with direct links to extremist groups in Pakistan and Somalia.

    David Headley, the son of a Pakistani diplomat and an American woman, was charged this week for acting as a scout for the Pakistan-based group Lashkar-e-Taiba in the Mumbai attacks last year, and plotting to target a Danish newspaper for publishing cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed.

    Najibullah Zazi, an Afghan immigrant, was arrested September 20 on charges of plotting a bombing spree in New York amid allegations he received explosives training in Pakistan.

    Fourteen Somali-American youths were charged in Minnesota with conspiracy to support terrorism and other offenses after allegedly receiving military training in Somalia, and joining in a bitter civil war.

    “We don’t know as much yet about the new case in Virginia, but it would appear to be another case where the radicalization process taking root among Americans of Pakistani, or Afghan or Somali origin,” said Riedel.

    Some analysts say the United States has been slow to respond and still has little understanding of the scope and nature of the problem.

    “Twelve warning signs is 12 too many,” said Bruce Hoffman, a terrorism expert at Georgetown University in Washington.

    “For too long, I think we may have been complacent in the United States, thinking this was a problem that occurred elsewhere and that it wasn’t a problem we really had to address in the US,” he added, acknowledging it was difficult to determine the extent of the development.

    Rick Nelson, a retired naval officer who served with the National Counterterrorism Center, said the rate of recruitment of US-based Muslims was unknown and pointed to the difficulty of tracking a trend that involves multiple groups with varying objectives.

    “There’s absolutely active recruiting done by these groups because again these western individuals hold passports that allow them to travel between countries; it gives them the access, it gives them the new face for their terrorist and extremist ideologies,” he said.

    “Certainly it’s almost a crown jewel in their extremist efforts.”

    • Greg

      “Put it this way: they know that 15 young Saudi males are not going to get into the United States on one-way visas to do flight training,” he told AFP.

      I wouldn’t be too sure about that. After all our propensity for stupidity in service of political correctness seems to know no bounds.

      After all just look at Fort Hood.

      Neither Fort Hood nor 9-11 had to happen. Both were easily preventable but Political Correctness and fears of “profiling” stopped us from doing so. I mean hello, Arab looking people taking fight school training without a particular interest in the landing part. Sure, one could say since there had never been an incident like 9-11 before they weren’t of such a mindset in the FBI, but I am sorry even before 9-11 it’s not like such activity shouldn’t have sent bells ringing all over the place. It was still kind of like duh, yeah, that might be something we should be concerned about.

  75. Tim

    Let’s be clear here. It seems to be mostly Muslim Immigrants that are the problem.

    So, we shouldn’t blame Islam. We should blame IMMIGRATION!

    • MarriedaMuslim

      Now that I take offense to. My husband is a muslim immigrant, and he’s not radical at all! He is the most laid back, easy going guy I know, especially when it comes to religion. And until you put up with all the BS that the immigration office throws at you, then you have no room to even talk about that mess of a government organization. I don’t think it’s Islam or Immigration that is the problem, but individuals are.

      • Tim

        Well, certainly there are good immigrants, but still the problem we are having are with those who still feel a strong attachment to their homeland.

  76. Adara

    This “Happy holidays is an attack on Christianity” stuff is tripe. Logic fail. “Happy holidays” is inclusive. Here’s why:
    If a Jew walks into a store in December and buys something and the clerk says “Thank you and merry Christmas!”–that will alienate the Jewish customer. Period. It might alienate anyone who doesn’t identify as Christian.
    It is smart for retailers not to directly talk about Christmas–though they *do* implicitly refer to Christmas with the decorations all around, because there’s no denying a big reason for December gift fever.
    Why is this difficult to understand? Retailers are being diplomatic because making all kinds of customers feel included will keep them buying.

  77. Greg

    Well they better start worrying about offending the Christian customer as well as those who might not exactly be Christian but understands how important Christmas is to our Cultural Heritage.

    More and more people are getting quite offended at “Happy Holidays”. And now Best Buy has stepped it up a notch.

  78. Gene

    http://chainletters.net/chainletters/christmas-party-memos/

    Subject: Christmas party announcement

    MEMO

    FROM: Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
    TO: Everyone
    RE: Christmas Party

    I’m happy to inform you that the company Christmas
    Party will take place on December 23, starting at noon
    in the banquet room at Luigi’s Open Pit Barbecue.

    No-host bar, but plenty of eggnog! We’ll have a small
    band playing traditional carols…feel free to sing
    along. And don’t be surprised if our CEO shows up
    dressed as Santa Claus!

    ====================================================

    FROM; Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
    RE: Christmas Party

    In no way was yesterday’s memo intended to exclude our
    Jewish employees. We recognize that Chanukah is an
    important holiday which often coincides with
    Christmas, though unfortunately not this year.

    However, from now on we’re calling it our “Holiday
    Party”. The same policy applies to employees who are
    celebrating Kwanzaa at this time.

    Happy now?

    ======================================================

    FROM; Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
    RE: Holiday Party

    Regarding the note I received from a member of
    Alcoholics Anonymous requesting a non-drinking
    table…you didn’t sign your name. I’m happy to
    accommodate this request, but if I put a sign on a
    table that reads, “AA Only”; you wouldn’t be anonymous
    anymore.

    How am I supposed to handle this?

    Somebody?

    =====================================================

    FROM; Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
    RE: Holiday Party

    What a diverse company we are! I had no idea that
    December 20 begins the Muslim holy month of Ramadan,
    which forbids eating, drinking and sex during daylight
    hours. There goes the party!

    Seriously, we can appreciate how a luncheon this time
    of year does not accommodate our Muslim employees’
    beliefs. Perhaps Luigi’s can hold off on serving your
    meal until the end of the party — the days are so
    short this time of year — or else package everything
    for take-home in little foil swans.

    Will that work?

    Meanwhile, I’ve arranged for members of Overeaters
    Anonymous to sit farthest from the dessert buffet and
    pregnant women will get the table closest to the
    restrooms.

    Did I miss anything?

    =====================================================

    FROM; Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
    RE: Holiday Party

    So December 22 marks the Winter Solstice…what do you
    expect me to do, a tap-dance on your heads? Fire
    regulations at Luigi’s prohibit the burning of sage by
    our “earth-based Goddess-worshipping” employees, but
    we’ll try to accommodate your shamanic drumming circle
    during the band’s breaks.

    Okay???

    ======================================================

    FROM; Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
    Date: December 9
    RE: Holiday Party

    People, people, nothing sinister was intended by
    having our CEO dress up like Santa Claus! Even if the
    anagram of “Santa” does happen to be “Satan,” there is
    no evil connotation to our own “little man in a red
    suit.” It’s a tradition, folks, like sugar shock at
    Halloween or family feuds over the Thanksgiving turkey
    or broken hearts on Valentine’s Day.

    Could we lighten up?

    ======================================================

    FROM; Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
    RE: Holiday Party

    Vegetarians!?!?!?

    I’ve had it with you people!!!

    We’re going to keep this party at Luigi’s Open Pit
    Barbecue whether you like it or not, so you can sit
    quietly at the table furthest from the “grill of
    death”, as you so quaintly put it, and you’ll get your
    #$%^&*! salad bar, including hydroponic tomatoes…but
    you know, they have feelings, too. Tomatoes scream
    when you slice them. I’ve heard them scream, I’m
    hearing them scream right now!

    =======================================================

    FROM: Teri Bishops, Acting Human Resources Director
    RE: Pat Lewis and Holiday Party

    I’m sure I speak for all of us in wishing Pat Lewis a
    speedy recovery from her stress-related illness and
    I’ll continue to forward your cards to her at the
    sanatorium.

    In the meantime, management has decided to cancel our
    Holiday Party and give everyone the afternoon of the
    23rd off with full pay.

    Happy Chanu-Kwanzaa-Solsti-Rama-Mas!!

  79. Greg

    This “Happy holidays is an attack on Christianity” stuff is tripe.

    Not only is it an attack on Christianity but it is also an attack upon America. Culturally America is a Christian nation.

  80. hannah

    So I have a comment actually related to the show —

    When does the next episode come out??

  81. Nahida

    I don’t know when the next episode is coming out.

    But watch this. =D

  82. Greg

    More anti-white propaganda.

    Reminds me of what the BBC did with “White Girl”.

  83. Greg

    By the way, Nahida do you that I would die for you?

  84. Nahida

    It’s anti-Nazi.

  85. Nahida

    Sure, it’s propaganda when *I* post it…

  86. Greg

    I am not alone in my willingness to protect you.

    In fact there are people right now, yes, white people, willing to die, and even dying for both us.

  87. Greg

    I found it interesting how at the end they still both ended up on the opposite side of the tracks.

    Yeah, enemies can unite against a common enemy, but afterwards they are still enemies.

    Kind of reminded me of WWII and how the US and Soviet Union became allies against the Nazis. But after the Nazis were defeated the US and Soviet Union were still enemies.

  88. Gene

    I thought it would have been better if the Jewish guy didn’t feel threatened by the skinheads but helped the Arab person anyway.

    Regardless the plot was cliche.

  89. Nahida

    Greg, for the love of God, I’m not convinced every white person is out to get me just cause I’m “different.”

    It sounds like something *you* would think about people. Stop projecting your views on me. =/

    The point was that they were neo-nazis not that they were white.

  90. Nahida

    How come when Tim does it it isn’t propaganda?

    You’re all so two-faced. D:<

  91. Nahida

    I thought it would have been better if the Jewish guy didn’t feel threatened by the skinheads but helped the Arab person anyway.

    Regardless the plot was cliche.

    Because one of them coming to rescue is less cliche…

    *rolls eyes*

    Criticizing the plot for being cliche is just screaming “I have nothing better to say.”

  92. Greg

    Okay, it’s propaganda. But also it is kind of balancing out the propaganda of the mainstream media.

    Most Muslims in America are good decent people but there is among the Immigrant Muslim community a radicalization going on in North America.

    We need to not let political correctness blind us to that.

  93. Greg

    In my opinion both scenarios would be cliche. Though I did like how at the end of it they were still on the opposite sides of the train tracks.

    So, it wasn’t them declaring peace among each other but instead just responding to a common enemy.

  94. Nahida

    They ended up on opposite sides of the track, but the lines were parallel.

  95. Nahida

    Plus they had accidentally grabbed each other’s bags before tossing them back to the rightful owner.

    They were in each other’s shoes. =D

    • Greg

      They were in each other’s shoes for a brief moment of time but then they put their own shoes back on (tossed the bags back to each other).

  96. Greg

    But then they did pass each other’s bags back and went on their own way.

    In a way, it kind of reminds me of the Christmas truce in WWI. Enemies coming together temporary for something common then going off as enemies again.

  97. Tim

    Did anyone see NCIS and NCIS Los Angeles last Tuesday?

    Although both shows celebrated Christmas both shows had Muslims in them. More importantly on both shows the Christian was the bad guy.

    It is often subtle, but there is certainly anti-Christian propaganda going on.

  98. Gene

    Yeah Greg both plots would be cliche.

    But I agree with others here that at least they didn’t go off hand in hand but instead ended up separated again. They might have come together temporarily for a common cause but still too much divides them for them to ever be friends.

  99. Nahida

    They might have come together temporarily for a common cause but still too much divides them for them to ever be friends.

    That’s ridiculous, of course they can be friends!

    I’m living proof.

  100. Greg

    They ended up on opposite sides of the track, but the lines were parallel.

    I like how you put that Nahida.

    Because we all know one thing about parallel lines.

    They can never meet. They can never connect.

    For that one strange moment in time that rule was somehow broken and they met and allied themselves against a common enemy.

    But in the end they found themselves on opposite sides again. And they went off to lead their parallel lines again. Kind of like that is how is should be most of the time. Or at least that is how it is.

    Yeah, it does remind me kind of sorta of the Christmas Truce of World War I where for one brief moment the soldiers united together as friends only to go off as enemies again. The uniting to fight a common enemy part reminds me of the US and Soviet Union uniting to fight the Germans in WWII.

  101. Gene

    Nahida you live in the United States. That’s kind of like neutral ground. At least it should be.

    I don’t like it when immigrants bring all their “baggage” with them when they come to America.

    And of course you aren’t an immigrant so you don’t have the baggage to begin with.

    • MarriedaMuslim

      And what “baggage” are you talking about? Their culture, their religion, their skills, their intelligence? People are different. You need to accept that.

      • Greg

        Oh, I don’t know…

        Say like your Grandfather was a Kenyan who was tortured by the British under the leadership of Winston Churchill. Now I certainly could understand how that might make you hate Winston Churchill in particular and the British in general.

        But of course for most Americans because of our dealing with him during WWII we have a very good opinion of Winston Churchill. But because you have this foreign baggage you can’t share in this.

        I guess this is a minor problem unless somehow you get into a position of prominence in the United States. A position where your actions could actually have an effect upon US/UK relations. It would be in the interests of the US because of recent history (WWII and since then) between the United States to maintain good relations, but because you have this foreign baggage you just can’t bring yourself to do this and instead continuously insult the British at every opportunity like giving the Queen of England an insultingly lame gift of a mp3 player full of your speeches.

        Then again, that sounds pretty far fetched.

        Yeah, something like that could never really happen. Never mind…

      • Greg

        Oh, I don’t know…

        Say like your Grandfather was a Kenyan who was tortured by the British under the leadership of Winston Churchill. Now I certainly could understand how that might make you hate Winston Churchill in particular and the British in general.

        But of course for most Americans because of our dealing with him during WWII we have a very good opinion of Winston Churchill. But because you have this foreign baggage you can’t share in this.

        I guess this is a minor problem unless somehow you get into a position of prominence in the United States. A position where your actions could actually have an effect upon US/UK relations. It would be in the interests of the US because of recent history (WWII and since then) between the United States and United Kingdom to maintain good relations, but because you have this foreign baggage you just can’t bring yourself to do this and instead continuously insult the British at every opportunity like giving the Queen of England an insultingly lame gift of a mp3 player full of your speeches.

        Then again, that sounds pretty far fetched.

        Yeah, something like that could never really happen. Never mind…

      • Greg

        Basically I mean immigrants coming over here but maintaining the historical animosities and agenda of the “old country”.

  102. Nahida

    Parallel lines move in the same direction, besides each other.

    I will be stubborn.

  103. Greg

    Nahida, surely you have taken a geometry class.

    Then you should know that the definition of parallel lines are two lines that can never meet.

  104. Nahida

    When did I deny they’ll never meet?

    I said they travel beside each other. In the same direction…

  105. Mike

    “Nahida you live in the United States. That’s kind of like neutral ground. At least it should be.”

    Living in America does not equate to living in neutral territory. Divisions between race still exist, they always will. The News is constantly revealing examples of racism, it is a war zone. Despite all of these divisions people still come together, regardless of skin color, school of thought, ethnicity. Whites are having Black friends, they are putting their history behind; Jews and Muslims, Catholics and Jews, et cetera.

  106. Greg

    I guess I don’t quite know what you mean by “travel beside each other” or travel in the same direction.

    I guess if you look at it one way we all travel in the same direction: from birth to death and for the people who believe it beyond.

    The short film did not have them holding hands or walking side by side (we were spared that sappy ending) but instead they found themselves back on opposite sides of the tracks figuratively as well as literally. The universe was back to normal now. They exchanged bags and then went on their own way again.

    Yeah, kind of like the Christmas Truce. Enemies coming together for something common and then going back to their respective sides of the trench. They had breached no man land for a moment of time but that time was fleeting. And like I said the whole coming together to battle a common foe thing reminds me of WWII and the US and Soviet Union but I have also seen it played out on some fictional shows I have watched.

    Perhaps they will have an episode where Amaar and Thorne will come together to fight a common foe (perhaps Tree and/or his Dad) only to after the threat is removed for things to go back to normal.

  107. Greg

    If an Israeli Solider who lost comrades in arms meets up with a Palestinian whose little sister in an IDF attack meets up in say San Francisco, I doubt they could ever be friends.

    But they better not kill each other on American soil that’s for sure. They need to wait until they get back to their part of the world to do so.

    Yeah, we in America have our own baggage against each other but at least it’s OUR baggage and not baggage from conflicts that we were never involved in and therefore don’t really care about.

    For example I really don’t care about whether Kashmir should be considered part of India or part of Pakistan. In fact I would be lucky if I could find Kashmir on a map. That’s how little I care about that issue. Although if an Indian meets up with a Pakistani say in a restaurant in Chicago it could lead to a very heated exchange though that is better be all that it leads to!

  108. Greg

    If an Israeli Solider who lost comrades in arms meets up with a Palestinian whose little sister was killed in an IDF attack meets up in say San Francisco, I doubt they could ever be friends.

    • Greg

      Or then again perhaps they could become friends as long as they didn’t discuss politics since both would find themselves removed from their ordinary circumstances and united in the common experience of being off in a foreign land.

      They could become quite good friends Perhaps, helping each other through the unfamiliar streets of San Francisco, battling racists (because you know you have throw in bad white people somewhere in the story), etc. Separated from the conflict that divides them and united in the common experience of being away from home in this strange land, they naturally feel pulled together into a friendship.

      And then they go back to their part of world and start fighting each other again.

      • Greg

        Wow, I have just written a plot to another film Nahida could find on Youtube.

        I wonder if I could get a grant to have it produced.

  109. Greg

    An Indian and a Pakistani is in a restaurant in some city in America arguing about Kashmir.

    A skinhead comes in to the restaurant and the Indian and Pakistani unite to chase the skinhead away.

    And then they go back to arguing about Kashmir.

    That would be about the same plot as this film about the subway.

  110. Nahida

    If anmeets up with a Palestinian whose little meets up in say San Francisco, I doubt they could ever be friends.

    As far as the plot was concerned the Jewish guy wasn’t an Israeli Solider who lost comrades in arms and the Muslim didn’t have a little sister who was killed in an IDF attack.

    This is why you’re missing my point.

    Stop taking more than the video gives you. It creates enormous fallacies.

    And then they go back to arguing about Kashmir.

    You also don’t know what happened afterward. They could have just as well walked off with a hard reality check about what truly matters.

    Or then again perhaps they could become friends as long as they didn’t discuss politics…

    I don’t avoid politics when I talk to my friends. As a matter of fact, I’m quite open about my views. Everyone knows, even those who wouldn’t care. I spare no one. If you can’t seem to make friends with people who are different religions than you, I will be as bold as to say you’re doing it wrong.

    • Greg

      I wouldn’t have a problem being friends with someone of a different religion as me as long as that person wasn’t constantly trying to convert me.

      But being friends with someone who was on an opposite side of mine politically…

      eh, Nope. Never… Not gonna happen.

      Unless somehow we just didn’t discuss politics. Even then it would be tough.

      But say like the person was from a bad country I could possibly separate the individual from the problems I had with the bad country.

      I just would know not to discuss the problems I had with that person’s country while in that person’s presence and of course if the person had problems with America then the person should do the same otherwise a friendship couldn’t develop.

  111. Nahida

    But being friends with someone who was on an opposite side of mine politically…

    You have opposites? Are you all moderate to Conservative or super Conservative? I imagine someone in the middle wouldn’t have “opposites” exactly…

    How about a visual. =D

    http://politicalcompass.org/test

    • Greg

      Yeah, that did kind of set public image efforts back didn’t it. This Mahr is an extremely leftist commentator who actually praised the 9-11 attackers so it is surprising that the subject is being discussed like that on of all places his show.

    • Greg

      Perhaps the distinction that Nahida makes applies here too. It’s not islam that’s the problem here but the specific Islamic cultures. Still the images in this video were beyond horrific.

  112. Greg

    Okay, yeah, lots of what Tim seems to be posting is propaganda.

    But it is scary what seems to be going on in the UK.

  113. Steve

    Agreed. Lots of what Tim seems to post is propaganda but the truth is that all Muslims in the west aren’t like Nahida.

    I wish they would be.

    But look one third of young western Muslims believe in terrorism. I am sure those people are mostly in the UK but as we are seeing recently “home grown” Islamic radicalization among Muslim youth is happening in the United States as well.

  114. Greg

    Yeah, I am not too impressed with a lot of what Tim has been posting but the one that has really shocked me it the immigrant violence in the UK and the one you just posted Steve.

    Oh, I also found that “new atheist” one kind of interesting.

    • Greg

      This is so funny and it ridicules the Leftist white upper middle class Americans even more than it does the terrorist.

      Yeah, I can see some white people go for an “adopt a terrorist” program. The ultimate tool to express”brick n brak” racism.

      That’s soo White!

      http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/

    • Greg

      I particularly liked the woman who played “Janet”.

      Favorite quote:

      Randy: “At the same time you want to close your eyes.”

      Janet: “Sometime you have to when you don’t like what you are seeing.”

      Second favorite quote:

      Randy “Yeah, Culture!”

      Randy and Janet Wagner. They are sooo white.

      http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com

      And a threat to us all.

      This video has to be one of the greatest bits of satire about the Leftist Americans response to the threat of Islamo-terror for quite some time now. I put it second only to this little bit of satire.

      • Steve

        Janet: “Sometime you have to when you don’t like what you are seeing.”

        If you don’t like what you are seeing just close your eyes instead of recognizing that there’s a problem.

        Reminds me exactly of how government officials dealt with all the red flags concerning Maj. Nidal Hasan.

        Oh, by the way, or latest response “tighter gun restrictions” at Fort Hood. Yeah, like that would have stopped somone as determined as Maj. Nidal Hasan from getting a firearm.

        But what it will do is make it even more tougher for people to respond to a Fort Hood style terrorist attack. Instead of 15 people perhaps the next Maj. Nidal Hasan can take out 40, 50 or more people before being brought down.

        Are we like the dumbest country in the world or what?

        http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/6776025.html

  115. Steve

    This is what is going on in UK. Here they are attacking even more moderate Muslims.

  116. Tim

    More on radical UK Muslims.

    Sorry, but this is what is going on there.

    Perhaps they were just angry that the stores there ran out of Quality Street.

    • Nahida

      Ugh. Seriously?! Fox “News”?

      • Steve

        Foxnews is much better than the other news organizations out there in America. It still doesn’t give the complete picture but it is a good start.

        The rest of the news media comes from an extreme leftist bias.

  117. Steve

    I see Tim and I agree with one video.

    Wow, what a coincidence.

    But that’s the thing isn’t it. I totally disagree with much of what of what Tim posts but we are of like mind I guess when it comes to our fear of the radicalization of home grown Muslims.

    So, what’s the answer then? Surely I believe that Islam in and of itself can actually be a positive influence upon American society. And even much of the immigrant population can be contributing members of our society.

    BUT, there are immigrants who come to our nation with the intention to harm us. And what we can do about that is that we must be vigilant as Americans especially Muslim Americans who would most likely be the ones to come into contact with these people.

    And in regards to the UK yeah, that is a big concern indeed.

  118. Greg

    I believe that a key thing is not to allow people to shut down negative things said about Muslims by just dismissing it as “hate speech”.

    We need more, not less dialogue and just dismissing the Tim’s of the world as “Islamaphobic” isn’t going to successfully address their concerns.

    Yeah, I think some of what Tim posts is over the top, but I also think that we need to be concerned about a certain segment of the Muslim population.

    Closing down speech by using such words as hate speech and Islamaphobia just burns bridges and breeds resentment.

    • Greg

      I have to say I kind of agree with this video.

      If we allow Political Corrrectness to blind us to the truth it is going to make this fight against terrorism nearly impossible.

      And the terrorists know that.

    • Nahida

      I usually ignore Tim. I don’t watch these videos, and I didn’t watch this one. I’m not going to. But I will reply to it’s title.

      I’m going to say it once and only once. Anyone who EVER calls my prophet a pedophile again will be dead to me.

      Ayesha (RA) was 18-23 when she married the Prophet (S)

      Most narrations for Ayesha’s (RA) age were reported by Hisham ibn Urwah who was reporting on the authority of his father. An event as well known should logically have been reported by more people than one two or three.

      No one else in Medina narrated the event, even though in Madinah ibn Urwah’s pupils included Malik ibn Anas. Instead all the narratives were from Iraq, where he moved later after 71 years. In the Tehzibi K Tehzib it is reported that ibn Anas objected to those narratives with ibn Urwah reporting through the people of Iraq, after stating that the Prophet (S) reported that according to Yaqub ibn Shaibah “narrations reported by Hisham are reliable except those reported through the people of Iraq” because when he was old, Hisham’s memory suffered quite badly. (vol 11 pg 48 & vol 14 pg 301-302)

      According to what is generally accepted Ayesha (RA) was born about 8 years before Hijrah but according to a narrative in the Bukhari (kitabul-tafseer) she (RA) is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar was revealed “I was a young girl,” using the word jariyah (young girl) and not sibyah (infant) showing that by the time she married the Prophet (S) she was already a young woman.

      Furthermore, 8 years before Hijrah, her father planned on meeting with the man to whom Ayesha (RA) was engaged, but the engagement was broken because he had accepted Islam. If she had really only been 9 years old at the time of her marriage to the Prophet (S) she could not have even been born before this happened.

      Ayesha (RA) among other women had accompanied the Muslims in the battle of Badr and Uhud to help the men. It is also reported that no one under the age of 15 was allowed to do this (battle of Uhud) and young boys below the age of 15 were sent back. She could not have been under 15.

      Asma (RA) the older sister of Ayesha (RA) was 10 years older than her. If this is true Taqribul Tezhib and Al-bidayah Wal-nihaya Asma (RA) died in 73 Hijrah at 100 years old, which means she was 28 or 27 at the time of Hijrah, making Ayesha (RA) 18 or 17. Ayesha (RA) married the Prophet (S) two or three years after this. She was AT LEAST 18.

      Tabari reported that Abu Bakr had 4 children all during Jahiliya—pre-Islamic period—which means Ayesha (RA) could not have been less than 14 when she was married. According to Ibn Hisham Ayesha (RA) accepted Islam a long time before Umar ibn Khattam which means she had accepted it in its first year—if she was nine or ten when she married the Prophet (S) this would be impossible because—again—she would have not been born.

      After the death of Khadijah (RA) when Khaulah (RA) recommended that the Prophet (P) marry again (reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal), she (RA) said the options were a bikr (virgin) or a thayyib (woman married before.) The word bikr was used to describe Ayesha, and in the Arabic language is not used for immature nine year old girls, but young virgin women.

      According to Ibn Hajar (RA) Fatima (RA) who is reported to have been born when the Prophet (S) was 35, was 5 years older than Ayesha (RA), which means Ayesha could not been less than 14 or 15 during hijrah, and no less than 16 or 17 during her marriage.

  119. Nathan

    To all Candians who think that Little Mosque on the Prairie gives a complete picture of Muslims in Canada, please watch this!

    • Greg

      Wow, it one would only believe what they present on LMOTP one would think it would be impossible for Canada to have “home grown” Muslim terrorists.

      But the video that Nathan posted shows that this simply isn’t true.

  120. Nahida

    We need more, not less dialogue and just dismissing the Tim’s of the world as “Islamaphobic” isn’t going to successfully address their concerns.

    The Tims of the world aren’t rational.

    I tend to dismiss irrational people.

  121. Nahida

    Foxnews is much better than the other news organizations out there in America. It still doesn’t give the complete picture but it is a good start.

    The rest of the news media comes from an extreme leftist bias.

    At least they admit they have a liberal bias. Faux News still claims to be “Fair & Balanced.”

    They’re not better. They’re exactly the same if not worse.

  122. Steve

    Since when has the other press admitted their leftist agenda driven bias?

  123. Nahida

    They do it all the time…

  124. Nahida

    LOLWUT!

    I’m not denying that white people have culture, but why doesn’t he just answer the question? “What is White culture?” It’s a simple question! And I would have honestly have given him a shot could he have answered it because he seemed less crazy when he’s not on actually Fox spelling oligarchy incorrectly. He actually looked calm and rational in this interview and wasn’t yelling and crying like the “men” usually are in conservative commentaries.

    Of course, I was wrong.

    He starts to talk and sounds like a schizophrenic. As usual. He isn’t coherent at all.

    And I love 1:45 “How am I the target for asking questions?”

    Omg, if I were doing that interview, “Because you’re the one who made the statement idiot.”

    • Nahida

      Another favorite: 3:01, “I believe… Americans should ask themselves, tough–tough questions.”

      Sure, as long as they’re not asking him

      • Nahida

        actually on*

      • Steve

        Surely you know what the truth is.

        Even though Obama was never a slave, his family were never slaves on his father side (assuming that he is really the son of Barack Obama and not Frank Davis) and the only slavery in Obama’s background is indeed the slavery of his own white part of his family he still holds contempt for America due to slavery and he has contempt for anything he considers white.

        Why do you think he would not respect the American flag during the campaign? He saw that as pledging allegiance to that white culture, that white establishment he so abhors?

        He has nothing but contempt for America. He has a burning hatred deep in his heart for this nation.

        The man who has only been a slave owner (talking about his blood line) now sees himself as the one who is enslaving those who he perceives as the enslavers.

        He hated his grandmother. He hated the white house hold he was forced to grow up in when his mother abandoned him.

        He has spent the first year of his Presidency spreading his hatred of this country around the world. Found in his position who wouldn’t smirk like he does.

        In the coming next fewer years there are going to be terrible things happening. Stuff that can only but get a sense of right now but the clouds are gathering. Look we know America is done for. But the question you must ask is what comes next.

        Anyway, I have no use of people mocking those they don’t even make the attempt to understand. I have no use for people whose only source of “news” is Jon Stewart. Those who would mock those like Glenn Beck are quite honestly dead to me. I have no use for them. No do they deserve anything but my contempt for them.

        I just have one question for you Nahida. Why when you do it isn’t it hate speak?

  125. Steve

    By the way, my mom once looked into our genealogy and in over 300 years we couldn’t find not one, not one slave owner.

    Obama can’t say the same.

    In fact, his father’s people (again if his father is Obama and not Davis) were the ones who captured their own people and sold them to slave traders who then sold them to Obama’s mother’s family back in America.

    But I, and we looked, I can say with certainly that my family has never, ever owned slaves. And I also know that I had an ancestor who fought FOR the UNION forces. And I had great uncles who served in WWII where we fought another evil we had no part in creating.

    Yet I am the bad guy.

    Go to hell. Yes go to hell!

    You are dead to me Nadiha. You can smirk now, you can laugh now but soon none of us will be laughing.

  126. Steve

    Sorry I misspelled your name Nahida. I was just so angry.

    You mock what you don’t understand.

    You laugh when your Imam punches out a Pastor saying even in three days he will not rise again.

    Broken Jesuses a laugh a minute.

    You know, LMOTP used to not be so meanspirited. But it is getting very meansprited and I am sure we haven’t seen the worse of it yet.

  127. Steve

    I am just waiting for their first 9-11 joke of this season.

    Something they haven’t done before but seeing the tenor of this show something that is sure to happen soon.

  128. Greg

    I disagree with Manning in that I don’t think the response is going to necessarily be a violent “in the street” one but might be a little more sophisticated than that.

    But yeah, something is going to have give.

    What I believe is going to happen is that there will be some incident and the response to that incident is going to take those who haven’t been paying attention by surprise because they will not look beyond the incident and realize that the response wasn’t merely due to just that incident but has been building up for quite some time.

    This whole “Best Buy” thing kind of has that quality. People who see it as just a single incident might think, big deal. They fail to put it in the context it is it. For quite some time now Christians have been attacked for public displays of their religion, over and over again, oh, can’t say Merry Christmas, as that would be religious.

    But then they go and freely express religious sentiments of another religion. Surely it makes sense why this might become a lightning rod.

    You can only rub a person’s face in the mud, and tell them they are the cause of all the world’s evils for so long until they respond some way. Manning is quite right about that. I just don’t know if the response is of the type Manning describes.

    And, Steve yeah, LMOTP has become quite mean sprited and having the Muslims knock out a Christian religious leader is just the most heinous of an ever increasing series of insults.

    Sure you could say that it was only a boxing match, one that the Christian forced the Muslim into and that the Christian “had it coming”.

    But isn’t that the point. After all this is a television show where the plots are written by people. Sure I loved seeing Rev Thorne get his ass kicked but what is that really saying? This show wrote a character of a Christian leader who people want to see physically harmed. They designed a character of a Christian leader who people believe DESERVES to be physically harmed.

    I guess it is okay, they feel to generate such hatred of Christian members of clergy. This is getting beyond mean spirited into something way more scary indeed.

    And please don’t think I am just singling out LMOTP. In fact getting back to context again, that’s just the point. It is getting way too common.

    NCIS just had their “Christmas” show where a Reverend paid to have his own son physically attacked in order to scare his son away from Islam.

    Followed by NCIS LA where on their Christmas special a Christian soldier goes off the deep end and starts killing his fellow soldiers (kind of Ft Hood in Bizzaro land).

    So, no you can’t take LMOTP’s knocking out of a Christian pastor alone as a single incident, but instead see it as a rising tide of anti Christian plots on television.

  129. Nahida

    Who the hell is John Stewart?

  130. Nahida

    I just have one question for you Nahida. Why when you do it isn’t it hate speak?

    Because when I do it, I’m talking about the poor quality of his answers, and not his race.

    You mock what you don’t understand.

    You don’t even know what I don’t understand. I thought I made it clear: I want to know exactly what white culture is. What I was mocking was Beck’s inability to provide an answer for a subject he raves on about. Thanks for the history lesson. I still don’t have an answer but at least it was coherent…

    You laugh when your Imam punches out a Pastor saying even in three days he will not rise again.

    Hold up, when was this? Okay now I’m really laughing, because I haven’t the slightest idea what you’re talking about. I wasn’t aware you knew my imam. You’re going off in tangents.

    Meh, not surprising.

    • Greg

      I believe it was Fred who made the “three days and he ain’t going to rise” crack when Amaar knocks Thorne out.

      And of course in an earlier episode when Yasir accidentally breaks the Jesus he says “if you are going to rise please do it now”.

      • Nahida

        Oh, the show. The possessive pronoun threw me off.

        It was Fred who made the joke, and Thorne was the one who wanted the fight.

  131. Nahida

    Oh, and another thing:

    Broken Jesuses a laugh a minute.

    I actually didn’t laugh. Not because I saw it as offense (I didn’t.) But because I don’t find this show funny. I watch it because it’s mildly amusing. And there’s a sense of community. I didn’t grow up in a tight Muslim community.

    But you seem to know a lot about people, don’t you Steve! You never met Obama in person and you know his deepest darkest feelings.

    I’d disagree with but since I doubt the President is reading this forum to convince you otherwise you’d have all the reason to continue to believe whatever you want because I can’t speak for him. So say whatever you want about Obama.

    Don’t make assumptions about me. Jerk.

    I love how you assumed I was supporting Obama because I believed he was the Messiah. And you accuse me of mocking things I don’t understand!

    You don’t know who I am.

    I did support him, grudgingly, when he ran against McCain. Originally I was always for Clinton–and not because I’m a feminist either, which is why Palin never cut it for me–but because I was unimpressed with both Obama and McCain. But once she was out, I did go with Obama. Not because he was black or had a Muslim background like I’ve been so often been accused of on this forum, but because I felt the Republican party had done enough. There was of course, the war. The multiple wars. The wars we fight and the sides we support. I’m not in favor of Palestine or Israel–I’ve read their histories in depth and its too complicated to take one side. But what did get to me about the issue was that you never heard an Israeli being called a terrorist.

    And McCain’s vice presidential candidate took me over the edge. If he thought he would win Clinton supporters with her… well that was pretty much insulting to the intelligence of every woman.

    Sometimes I felt by McCain’s facial expressions that he might have been embarrassed by her.

    But I won’t pull a Steve…

  132. Greg

    It was Fred who made the joke, and Thorne was the one who wanted the fight.

    You do know that these are fictional characters, right?

    And that a bunch of people get together and to develop ideas about what is going to happen in the show right? They are known as writers.

    Of course you do know that. I don’t mean to imply you don’t but I just want to stress the point. In reality Thorne didn’t want the fight because in reality Thorne doesn’t exist. The WRITERS wanted the fight. Why? I wish I knew.

    Why develop a character of a Christian leader that people want to see physically harmed? Hey, I wanted to see him get his ass kicked as much as anyone. That is how good they were at developing such a character.

    But looking back it’s scary indeed how easy it was for them to do so. It is scary how easy it was for them to make us want to see a Christian leader physically harmed. And yeah, I am saying that as someone who myself enjoyed seeing it. Quite scary.

  133. Greg

    By the way that was the last episode of the year and the last episode before Christmas.

    So as a “Christmas Gift” we got to see a Christian leader get the crap beaten out of him by a Muslim and we enjoyed it because of course the Christian pastor “had it coming”.

    Merry Christmas.

    Ooops I mean Happy Holidays.

  134. Nathan

    What concerns me is this episode seems consistent with the “narrative” that has been effective in radicalizing some Muslims in North America (see the CNN video I have posted) turning them towards the planning of violence.

    That narrative has to do with the perception of this Muslims that injustices against Muslims have been increasing.

    Let’s face it who has faced more injustice than Amaar this year has at the hand of Thorne. Thorne has gone out of his way to act in an unjust manner to Amaar. Even though Amaar has only but responded with kindness still Thorne keeps acting unjustly towards Amaar and Muslims.

    And even in this episode this wasn’t a fight that Amaar wanted. He did everything humanly possible to avoid it. But the Christian Pastor kept pushing and pushing by leaping one insult upon the other.

    But even up to the first part of the fight Amaar still would not raise a fist to the Christian pastor. And as a result he got this.

    “Option one: you back down now and everyone thinks I have tamed the Muslim menace. Option two I knock you down in front of everyone and look crushingly superior.”

    Well, in end you can only push an individual (or a group of people) too far until they push back, and after all as Rayyan said after the fight you are a human not a machine. Of course it was totally right for Amaar to finally fight back against all the injustice this Christian pastor did against him and the Muslims in Mercy by knocking him out. Just like it is only right to respond to all the injustices the Western world have inflicted upon Muslims by exploding bombs in Toronto taking as many Canadian lives out in the process. Or so would be an obvious conclusion to someone who was already becoming radicalized by this narrative.

    I can’t come to believe that the writers are doing this on purpose but they have made something that furthers the radicalization process of Canadian Muslims who are already radicalizing themselves through their obsession with the “injustice to Muslims” narrative (again watch the CNN clip).

    From a program that was supposed to foster love and understanding to something that could quite easily be used to radicalize western Muslims into planning acts of destruction. You have come a long way Little Mosque on the Prairie. A long way in a very scary direction.

    Check out this video. It talks about the “self radicalization” through the use of the “narrative”.

  135. Nathan

    This is really a “self-radicalization” that is going on in the West. And shows with the “narrative” like the one we just saw just fuels that.

    Here is another news clip that kind of gets into “the narrative” but I have seen other news bits that actually call it a “narrative”.

    By the way, what I find interesting about this clip is that the host is an extreme leftist American hater himself yet, even he is becoming concerned. I guess he realizes that radiation from a dirty bomb isn’t going to like just go around him and not penetrate is body because he hates America too. Or perhaps he just doesn’t want to see it happen on Obama’s watch.

  136. Greg

    I love how even in this one clip Chris Matthews so clearly reveals himself for the condescending racist that he is.

    I would sure like to see someone wipe the smirk off his face.

  137. Greg

    Gosh, Nathan, I see what you mean about this affirming the “narrative”. This can’t have been done intentionally. I won’t believe they did it on purpose. But even accidentally what they have just done is quite dangerous indeed.

    The writers structured the plot in a way where no honest human being could hold Amaar responsible for what he did. After all we are all only human. I myself cheered when I saw that smug Rev Throne take it on the chin and drop to the floor.

    But yeah, for someone who is already focused on that line of thinking, if it was perfectly understandable and justified for Amaar to do what Amaar did since the Christian Pastor had been asking for it, then indeed it is justifiable for them to go plant bombs “in response to injustices against Muslims” because the West has been asking for it as well.

    Yeah, I could see how this would just serve to confirm this in their minds. I am sure this is accidental on the writers part but they have just helped in the radicalization of Canadian Muslims.

  138. Mo

    I believe Baber was right in what he said to Faisal about how to be a leader one must embrace their hatred.

    And it looks like Amaar is beginning to do just that.

    • Nahida

      Yeah, the whole world just do that.

      /sarcasm

      • Mo

        Hate is part of every human being.

        Baber was right. Amaar had spent the whole show trying to run away from his hate, trying to deny his hate.

        But it was only when he embraced his hate that Amaar was shown for the true leader he was.

        A true leader doesn’t run from their own hate. They learn to channel their hate. As Rayyan said “you are a human Amaar”.

        This is going to be the turn about part of the series for Amaar’s character. No one took him seriously before. But now they will learn to fear him.

  139. Steve

    I think it is indeed important what Rayyan said about Amaar “being human”.

    And yeah, as this episode shows a person, a people can only be pushed so far…

    But I just have one thing to say, Americans, Christians, White people, well we are human too.

    How long can we be pushed with attacks on Christmas, attacks on our nation dressed up in movies about alien cats, constant name calling of racism, racism, racism when one of the most racist people on earth, a man whose blood line is responsible for enslaving in TWO CONTINENTS (unless he is really Frank Davis’s bastard child) looks down from his perch in Washington DC smirking at us all.

    Pastor Manning says it the best and since he is Black and I mean a REAL BLACK (descendant of slaves instead of descendant of slave owners and those who sold their own people into slavery) he can’t be a racist.

    He said it best. You can only push a people for so long…they can only take so much… they are only human.

  140. Steve

    People are tired of this. People are only human.

  141. AC

    IS THERE NO ONE MODERATING THIS BLOG?! Seriously, can someone just delete and ban Steve and the other trolls who take over the comment threads week after week, so those of us who actually want to discuss the show can do so in peace?

  142. Greg

    I for one have been discussing the show.

    What did you think of the concept of having an Muslim Imam launch a “can of whip ass” against a Anglican Priest?

    Yeah, the plot was cleverly designed so that the Anglican Priest “had it coming”. Heck I was even cheering when Rev. Thorne hit the mat.

    But still when you take a step back the whole concept is quite disturbing, and as Nathan mentioned even dangerous.

    • Gene

      I am afraid that it has been the images from this episode that has stuck with me and have bothered me since seeing this show.

      One in particular really gnaws at me.

      Right before Rev Thorne falls he does the sign of the cross.

      That image of seeing him do the sign of the cross and then fall visually seemed for me to make it more than just the character of Rev Throne who we have been conditioned to hate falling but instead they seemed to want to make it look as indeed Christianity itself had fallen.

      A quite disturbing image instead. Second only to seeing Our Savior in pieces.

      This season of LMOTP has gotten extremely anti-Christian. Too bad. As a whole before what I liked about the sure was its warmth and sense of community.

      I fear where they are going to take the show next. I mean after punching out a Anglican Priest where is there left to go?

      • Gene

        This season of LMOTP has gotten extremely anti-Christian. Too bad. As a whole before what I liked about the show was its warmth and sense of community.

      • Gene

        This season of LMOTP has gotten extremely anti-Christian. Too bad. As a whole before what I liked about the show was its warmth and sense of community.

        This was indeed a very disturbing episode.

      • Greg

        I fear where they are going to take the show next. I mean after punching out a Anglican Priest where is there left to go?

        In Canada in the future when they talk about a show going past its prime instead of saying the show “jumped the shark” which is kind of getting to be a dated term they are going to talk about a show “punching the Priest”.

        Amaar might as well stuck out his finger and go AAAA!

  143. Greg

    Thumb I mean. Fonzie would stick out his thumb and go AAA.

    Sit on it Thorne!

  144. Greg

    Yep, I think the show has just Punched out the Priest. That has just as good a ring to it as Jumped the Shark.

  145. Greg

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JumpingTheShark

    Jumping The Shark is the moment when an established show changes in a significant manner in an attempt to stay fresh. Ironically, that moment makes the viewers realise that the show has finally run out of ideas. It has reached its peak, it will never be the same again, and from now on it’s all downhill.

    Otherwise known as “Punching out the Priest”.

  146. Gene

    LOL,

    Somehow I can really imagine Fatima telling either Baber or Fred to “go sit on it”!

    And I see Baber in return go like “sit on what? I do not know what you are taking about”.

  147. Susan

    Do anyone have any idea on how this show can be saved? Yeah, it’s on life support.

    Here’s an idea I have.

    Amaar has fallen asleep at his desk. He awakes startled as Rev McGee walks in.

    McGee: “Anything wrong Amaar?”

    Amaar: “I just had the strangest dream”.

  148. Susan

    McGee: “What did I tell you about saying up late for those Fawlty Towers marathons.”

    Amaar: “Yeah, I won’t be doing that again.”

  149. Susan

    McGee: “What did I tell you about staying up late for those Fawlty Towers marathons.”

    Amaar: “Yeah, I won’t be doing that again.”

    McGee: “So how is Rayyan dealing with things”.

    Amaar: “Well considering that it’s only been a few weeks since the whole wedding thing I think pretty well.

  150. Susan

    Amaar on the street talking with Rayyan:

    Rayyan: “I thought about calling J.J. but…”

    Guy in a fancy car stops and ask “Pardon me, but is this quaint small town by any chance Woolerton? I couldn’t see a sign when I drove in.

    Amaar seems a little shocked…

    Rayyan: “Woolerton” (spits) I am sorry but that’s a long ways a way from here. You must have missed a turn several hours back. You need to make a big U-turn.

    Unnamed man in car: “That is disappointing to hear” well thanks for your help. I will be on my way now. God Bless.

    Amaar: “Why did you do that?”

    Rayyan: “Do what?”

    Amaar: “Spit like that.”

    Rayyan thinks for a second. “Honestly I don’t know why I did do that”.

    Amaar: “Uh, did that guy look familiar to you?” Did you recognize him?”

    Rayyan: “Nope, never saw him before in my life. Should I have recognized him?”

    Amaar (still seeming a little confused): Eh, no I guess not. Note to self no more Fawlty Towers…

    Rayyan… “Anyway, I thought about callling JJ but…”

  151. Susan

    Amaar and Rayann sitting at a booth at Fatima’s.

    Rayyan (laughing): You’re serious? You knock the Reverend out just like Mohammed Ali?

    Amaar (laughing): I know crazy isn’t it!”

    Yasir and Sarah come in Sarah overhearing “What Amaar knocked McGee out?”

    Amaar: “It wasn’t McGee.”

    Rayyan: “No, Mom, Amaar was just telling me about this crazy dream he had.”

    Yasir: “I keep having this reoccurring dream where I am a sophisticated international art criminal…”

    Baber: “Dreams humph”

    Amaar: “Are you telling us that you don’t dream Baber?”

    Baber: “Of course not. Dreams are a product of an undisciplined descendant mind”.

    Layla: “Then why have I heard you wake up in the middle of the night screaming, Please Blue guy have some decency to put some pants on!”

    • Mark

      http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0814549/bio

      Manoj Sood was born in Mombassa, Kenya but grew up in Western Canada. Manoj entered the entertainment world in 1994 and has been working steadily for the past 12 years. Manoj, much to his surprise, landed a supporting role in an American MOW after his very first audition. Up until then his only acting experience had been from his acting classes. Manoj walked onto his first day of shooting as green as a person of color can be. When the camera operator said, “speed” Manoj thought he was saying “speak” so he jumped right into saying his lines. The director then gave a very nervous Manoj his first on-set note: “Manoj you have to wait for the word ‘action’ before you say your lines”.

      Since that day Manoj has appeared in more than 40 Television and Feature Film productions. He has appeared on popular Television shows like “Da Vinci’s Inquest”, “The Dead Zone”, “Romeo!” and “Dead Like Me” as well as numerous others. Manoj has also acted in popular films such as Meltdown (2004) (TV) and Rat Race (2001).

      Brother of actress Veena Sood.

      Attended St Michaels University School in Victoria, BC.

      Grew up in Calgary, Alberta.

      Avid fly fisherman and fly tier since he was 10 years old.

      Immigrated to Canada in 1964 when he was 18 months old.

      Is a well known amateur astronomer, a hobby he has been passionately involved in since age 12.

      Son, Kama born May 6, 1998.

      Quite Often plays Arab-Muslim characters, however Manoj himself is of East Indian Hindu descent.

      And yeah, he was also most recently in Watchmen.

  152. Greg

    Actually I like Susan’s idea.

    Sure the whole “it was all a dream” trope is pretty lame.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllJustADream

    But since this is a comedy, if done carefully, the very lameness of this tactic can itself be used for comedic effect.

    And besides, I believe the audience would forgive the writers of almost any tactic that results in the removal of Throne. Most of the viewers right now are indeed just wishing that this whole fourth season was just an ugly nightmare.

  153. Greg

    Oh, and I love the part in Susan’s story where “Throne” comes up and asks for directions to “Woolerton” (spit).

    Classical Music from his radio blaring in the background (as it was in the first episode this season).

    “Did that guy look familiar (Amaar)”?

    “Nope, never saw him before in my whole life (Rayyan).”

    The audience wishes that we could say the same thing. We wish we could be so lucky.

    That would be the perfect way to bring back Magee. Act like he never left.

    It was all a bad dream…

  154. Greg

    Thorne I mean of course. Sorry for the typo.

    Please, if any of the writers are reading this please think about using this idea…

    It was all just a bad dream. Magee never left.

  155. Nathan

    Here is an interesting about the guy who plays Thorne on the show.

    He thinks religion is a JOKE!

    http://jam.canoe.ca/Television/TV_Shows/L/Little_Mosque_On_The_Prairie/2009/09/26/11127241-sun.html

    Brandon Firla has an interesting theory about comedy and religion.

    “I actually was thinking comedy and religion are kind of the same, because you can say outrageous things and have an instant defence for it,” Firla said. “Either, ‘I’m just joking’, or, ‘It’s in the Bible.’ “

  156. Nathan

    Here is an interesting article about the guy who plays Thorne on the show.

    That’s what I mean to post.

  157. Grant

    This is no dream, but no it’s the EVIL Christians to blame. Must punch them out every chance we get.

  158. Tim

    Jamie Glazov: United in Hate – the Left’s Romance with Tyranny and Terror (1 of 4)

  159. Tim

    Jamie Glazov: United in Hate – the Left’s Romance with Tyranny and Terror (2 of 4)

  160. Tim

    Jamie Glazov: United in Hate – the Left’s Romance with Tyranny and Terror (3 of 4)

  161. Tim

    Jamie Glazov: United in Hate – the Left’s Romance with Tyranny and Terror (4 of 4)

  162. Clive

    Don’t let them do to them on your side of the pond what they did to us.

  163. Clive

    Peter Hitchens – Radio Debate (1/6)

  164. Clive

    Peter Hitchens – Radio Debate (2/6)

  165. Clive

    Peter Hitchens – Radio Debate (3/6)

  166. Clive

    Peter Hitchens – Radio Debate (4/6)

  167. Clive

    Peter Hitchens – Radio Debate (5/6)

  168. Clive

    Peter Hitchens – Radio Debate (6/6)

  169. Nahida

    Why hasn’t Tim’s video been deleted? I’ve seen posts that had cuss words in them and they were gone the next day. Any use of profanity on this forum has always been deleted.

    Religion is SO irrelevant. Muammar Gaddifi tricked about 200 young models in Italy to go to something they thought would be a dinner but it turns out he just wanted to lecture them in Islam. He passed out a book of his own quotes. Of his OWN quotes. Hot Italian models–unpretty girls need not apply.

    Pathetic. How could anyone not see what he’s doing from a mile away? This had nothing to do with Islam. He was trying to pick up women. The women were very polite about it (who doesn’t love the Italians?) but I’d like to have seen one of them severely diss him.

    There was a girl who wore a shirt that said “Islam is from the Devil” or something and taken out of school for it. When she was asked later in an interview if she thought all Muslims are bad, she replied, “No. They can be saved just like everyone else.”

    She’s not out to convert people to save souls any more than Muammar Gaddifi. She was doing it because she’s a psycho, and maybe starving for attention with the sad nature of fame today. It’s never about religion, and I don’t see why people don’t get that. At my university this guy in my class was talking about how the laws in Iran were whacked because they were based on religion.

    “No they’re not,” I said, “they’re based on whatever douche decides he wants them to be based on in the name of religion.”

    “So… religion?” he smirked like he thought he was clever or something.

    “Thank you, I know now not to waste my time seeing as you lack of very simple comprehension abilities.” I wondered if he was insulting Islam specifically or if he was just an atheist. I didn’t want to be angry with him; from what I’d known before this he was a nice guy. We’d just met he didn’t know I’m Muslim and I doubted he could guess it through my race–I’ve been mistaken for many different ethnicities. Race had nothing to do with it anyway (though I also doubt he knew even this.)

    “All I know,” he’d said, “Is that men can do this whenever they want and get away with it.” He pointed at the badge on his backpack that said Men can stop rape.

    “Maybe that’s the problem,” I said. “that’s all you know.

    As we walked into the classroom I’d added, “Men who rape women are executed in Islam. That’s what would happen if the system was truly based on religion.”

    But it’s never about religion. It’s either for money and power in the form of land, money and power in the form of supplies, money and power in the form of prisoners, money and power in the form of recognition, or money and power in the form of money and power.

    Or, in the case of Muammar Gaddifi, really hot chicks.

    No one out to save souls actually gives a damn about saving souls.

  170. Steve

    The guy is probably another “Tree”.

    He sounds like a real jerk. Accuse him of being an Islamaphobe and his own people will probably turn on him.

    They are the real enemy of all of us.

    Tim, yeah it is too bad he posted that one video but these have been angry times. Please forgive those who in their anger will insult you but if it becomes physical report them immediately for that can never be tolerated in our country.

    I kind of agree with you Nahida about in the end it’s not really about religion. Although one question, isn’t concern about Sharia Law concern about Islam as a religion?

    But you are right for the most part about the problem being not with the Islamic Religion. It’s cultural.

  171. Steve

    “Men who rape women are executed in Islam. That’s what would happen if the system was truly based on religion.”

    That is what should happen regardless. But only in cases where it’s certain who did it and that a crime did indeed take place. Not in “he said she said” situations because in those cases it’s too easy for men to be framed.

    The guy sounds like a real scumbag. You run into a lot of those types in the Universities. Here is a web page that you might find funny.

    http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com

  172. Steve

    He pointed at the badge on his backpack that said Men can stop rape.

    Here’s a better button.

    Guns Can stop rape.

  173. Daria

    Here’s even a better button

    Scissors can Stop Rape

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_and_Lorena_Bobbitt

  174. Grant

    I have been reading up on the way that Muslims in the West are Jihaditized. And it seems that this most recent show unintentionally (I am pretty sure) plays into this.

    Western Muslims embrace Jihad because they believe that Muslims are being treated unjustly throughout the world.

    The way that feeds into the current plot of LMOTP is that obviously Amaar has been treated very unjustly by Thorne.

    For those so minded the most recent episode really plays into their narrative for Jihad and could be perceived as justifying it.

    After all the Christian pastor kept pushing, and pushing Amaar for the fight despite Amaar making every effort to avoid it. But a person (and a people) can only be pushed so far, right?

    I am sure this is unintentional but I do wonder how many watching the show were further motivated into Jihad because of it. Surely only a few but a few would still be a few too many.

  175. Tim

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1240003/Axe-wielding-man-shot-wounded-trying-enter-home-Kurt-Westergaard.html

    Danish police have shot a man trying to enter the house of a controversial cartoonist armed with an axe.

    A 27-year-old was wounded in the incident at the Aarhus home of Kurt Westergaard, who drew cartoons of Islam’s prophet Mohammed.

    “At 10pm this evening, a personal alarm was received from Mr Westergaard’s house,” chief superintendant Morten Jensen, from East Jutland police, said.

    Officers found a 27-year-old Somalian man “armed with an axe and a knife in either hand”.

    Chief superintendant Jensen said: “He broke a window of Mr Westergarrds house. He tried to attack one officer with an axe and he was shot in his right leg and his left arm.

    “He’s not seriously injured, he’s in custody,” he added.

    Westergaard was one of the 12 cartoonists commissioned by the Danish Jyllands-Posten newspaper in 2005 to produce caricatures of the Muslim prophet.

    Islamic tradition says no image of him should be produced or shown.

    Muslims were particularly incensed by Westergaard’s cartoon, which portrayed Mohammed with a bomb in his turban and was seen as extending the caricature of Muslims as terrorists. The images sparked protests and outrage across the globe.

  176. Steve

    I don’t have problems with the Muslim religion or Muslims in general. It’s Islamofascism that I have a problem with. It’s the Jihadists that I have a problem with.

  177. Tim

    But a person (and a people) can only be pushed so far, right?

    Right.

    And what group of people have been pushed for the last 20 years or so… being accused of all the world’s evils, etc…?

    Muslims might feel like the world’s victims but in America at least white people are feeling pushed in a corner as well.

  178. Kay

    That’s what’s happening in the UK.

    Lower class whites are feeling very persecuted there. And then you have the Muslims who feel persecuted.

    In 1968 a politician gave a famous speech about how he unfortunately predicted that if the current immigration trends didn’t change there would be “rivers of blood” in 20 years.

    Seems he was only about a decade off.

  179. Tim

    WASHINGTON: The apparent ties between the Nigerian man charged with plotting to blow up an airliner on Christmas Day and a radical American-born
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    Yemeni imam have cast a spotlight on a world of charismatic clerics who wield their internet celebrity to indoctrinate young Muslims with extremist ideology and recruit them for al-Qaida, American officials and counterterrorism specialists said.

    American military and law enforcement authorities said the man accused in the bombing attempt, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, most likely had contacts with the cleric, Anwar al-Awlaki, whom investigators have also named as having exchanged email messages with Maj Nidal Malik Hasan, an army psychiatrist charged with killing 13 people in a shooting rampage in November at Fort Hood, Texas.

    Speaking in eloquent, often colloquial, English, Awlaki and other internet imams from the Middle East to Britain offer a televangelist’s persuasive message of faith, purpose and a way forward, for both the young and as yet uncommitted, as well as for the most devout worshipers ready to take the next step, to jihad.

    “People across the spectrum of radicalism can gravitate to them, if they’re just dipping their toe in or they’re hard core,” said Jarret Brachman, author of “Global Jihadism: Theory and Practice”.

    “Awlaki is, among other things, a talent spotter,” a US counterterrorism official said. “That’s part of his value to Qaida. If people are drawn to him, he can pass them along to trainers and operational planners.”

    Sheikh Khalid bin Abdul Rahman al-Husainan of Kuwait mixes contemporary politics with talk of martyrdom. “Obama, in the same way that you raised the slogan, ‘Yes We Can,’ I too have a slogan,” Husainan wrote in August. “My slogan in this life is ‘Happiness is the day of my martyrdom.’”

  180. Nahida

    Although one question, isn’t concern about Sharia Law concern about Islam as a religion?

    In a way, yes, but today in Muslim countries what the Sharia Law dictates and what actually is executed as “justice” and enforced in society is entirely different–in some case, polar opposites. A man would be executed for rape by Sharia Law, but of course, as far as carrying it out goes in current Middle Eastern culture, he’s very likely to get away with it…

  181. Nahida

    Daria, I’m pretty much okay with castrating rapists except that I wouldn’t know what to do with a woman who was a sex offender.

    My friend and I were discussing it when I announced to year about a year ago that I believed rapists should be at least castrated.

    Me: Rapists should be castrated.

    Her: What if the rapist is a woman?

    Me: …What? How is that possible.

    Her: I’m not sure… but I’ve heard about it before. She’d have to knock him out I guess.

    Me: So it’s happened before?

    Her: Yeah.

    Me: Oh. Darn.

    I still think rapists should be castrated, but you can’t exactly castrate a woman, and I also want to be fair so I’ve been trying to think up a solution…

  182. Nahida

    to her about a year ago*

  183. Nahida

    I’ve heard a lot of people say that the outrage following the hateful attack of a religious figure is ridiculous because it shows the weakness of the follower’s faith.

    “Why would you care if that person is attacked?” they’ve asked. “If you truly believe in what you say, your faith would be untouched.” I’ve heard atheists especially use this to claim that deep down inside the Faithful know their ways are false.

    They’re not wrong about the point that strong faith shouldn’t be moved, but they’re wrong about what they believe is the reason for the outrage. Attackers of religious figures, of prophets, of saints, of whomever they may be, evoke outrage from the followers of the religion not because it causes fear of shaken faith for the followers, but because the followers love these figures as if they know them personally. They know them more intimately than those they see and speak to everyday, because these are the people who move them, the people they believe hear their prayers. They love them just as a brother or a sister, with a love as sacred and as sound as God has placed it, and when these individuals are attacked, it evokes the same infuriated pain that is evoked when a loved one is attacked, especially if because he or she is misunderstood.

    And that is why there is outrage. It isn’t fear–it’s pain.

    As understanding as the emotional reaction was, I also felt the Muslims were fools for making a huge deal about the cartoons. As soon as I saw the reaction I knew it was a bad move. Now the cartoons will be reprinted over and over and immortalized for the controversy they caused. In the name of “free speech” (apparently not “hate speech”) the cartoons were reprinted over and over on blogs and Internet news sites.

    They’ve also claimed that religion is the cause of most wars, and if it weren’t for religion there would be much more peace in the world.

    Untrue. People would just find other reasons to go to war. It goes back to what I’ve said before–religion has nothing to do with it. It serves only as an excuse.

  184. Nahida

    The war between Israel and Palestine, for example. A lot of people think it’s about religion. But truth be told it’s plainly over land. It isn’t Muslim vs. Jew. It’s Palestinian vs. Israeli. I met a Palestinian Christian once and he was for Palestine, not because he was Muslim (as I just stated, he wasn’t) but because he was a Palestinian.

  185. Nahida

    If it was really primarily a religious concern there wouldn’t be a war. They’d all sit down and have a nice dinner.

  186. Steve

    I agree with all of that.

    It really isn’t about religion. At least not for the most part.

    So an effort to understand Islam on the part of non-Muslims isn’t really going to change things.

  187. Nahida

    It won’t change how the world functions, but I think a little understanding can go a long way, especially as far as community is concerned.

    After The Princess and the Frog came out, I read reports of Christians finding the movie upsetting because it was a black woman in New Orleans in the 1920s so there should be a lot of religious influence in the movie, and there wasn’t a single mention of Jesus or God.

    My first thought, of course, was that there was no reason to be upset; Disney has never been historically accurate. I mean, it’s not like they talked about Islam in Aladdin, or… I don’t think there was a Jewish Disney princess, but if there was I don’t think the religion would be mentioned.

    I’d found it to be a lovely movie–not as good as Beauty and the Beast or The Little Mermaid but were I to compare it to the very best my standards may be unfair.

    A few days later I’d been walking past the food court in a mall when I overheard a group of people talking about it. “Christianity should be treated as a mental disorder, somewhere between BPD and HPD.”

    I stopped. It would be rude to interject, but I was a little too shocked to care.

    “Hey,” I said. “Hey.”

    They looked at me. Seeing my horrified expression, the girl who was speaking fidgeted, “Oh no you don’t have either of those do you? I’m sorry I–”

    “No.”

    “Oh. Then what’s wrong? …Are you a Christian?”

    “No. Are you studying psychology?”

    “I’m going to, when I go to college.”

    And our conversation went roughly like this (obviously there’s going to be chunks I’ve forgotten):

    “By the standards of one of your potential professions, you’re awfully insensitive.”

    “I would think they’d like me to be insensitive! They’re the ones always ridiculing political correctness–and yet they seem to demand it when it comes to themselves!”

    “I won’t deny that for some people… But I think you’re unreasonably judgmental in this particular case.”

    “Judging me to be judgmental makes you judgmental.”

    “I’m not judging you to be judgmental. It’s an observation. There’s a difference. But perhaps you’re just right for your potential profession, slapping a personality disorder on anyone without really hearing them out because you’ve put thoughts in their heads yourself–”

    “You don’t know me! I want to help people!”

    I sighed. “I do apologize for that last bit. But has it occurred to you that they have neither borderline nor histrionic personality disorder and would simply appreciate some positive representation for once? Imagine if you were one of them! The few news stories going around about you only depict how crazy you are. I mean, c’mon, I’m sure it’s happened to everyone!”

    She stammered. “Okay–okay, but it’s Disney! They shouldn’t be angry about this!”

    “I never said they should. I’m only saying you don’t understand why they are. It’s like a missed opportunity, and it seems they get so few. The news won’t cover happy things.”

    “How do YOU know why they are? They haven’t explained themselves.” She paused, uncertain, and added, “I don’t think.”

    “Well, I doubt anyone bothered to ask.”

    It’s funny how people talk too much, but never seem to get anything done. They talk to people who are like them, who will doubtlessly agree with them, and while some give chances to others, there are very few who listen properly. It’s a fault belonging to both ends of the spectrum, heavily and equally on everyone. And it makes people see others as one-dimensional, because it makes everyone defensive because everyone else is assuming what they stand for by a single perspective on any topic, (extreme liberals think I’m too conservative, extreme conservatives think I’m too liberal, and only the moderate will believe I’m moderate) when in truth, I honestly believe, we all care about the same things.

    We just want everyone to be safe and happy, and for ourselves to be accepted.

  188. Nahida

    Of course, that has more to do with understanding people than religions. So I guess you’re right as far as non-Muslims understanding Islam itself. It may be much more effective to understand Muslims as people than Muslims as Muslims.

  189. Episode 10 Has Been Uploaded…

  190. Steve

    “I would think they’d like me to be insensitive! They’re the ones always ridiculing political correctness–and yet they seem to demand it when it comes to themselves!”

    I think what they want (or perhaps I should only speak for myself) is you (I mean people like you) to be consistent.

    If you support political correctness and demand it of others then YOU should be politically correct when it comes to your enemies. Otherwise YOU are the hypocrite.

    Look I am all in favor of harsh (unpolitically correct) language from you as long as you allow it of others. But true political correctness isn’t about “feelings” it is actually a strategy to strangle debate. Well it is actually much more insidious than that. Look up the terms “Cultural Marxism” and “Frankfurt School” to find out what it is really all about. It is a one sided attack and it is MEANT to be a one sided attack. And it approaches all too closely into the concept of “thought crime”.

  191. Steve

    I honestly believe, we all care about the same things.

    No, I am strongly against Marxism while there are many in my country who care about turning our country into a Marxist country.

  192. Steve

    If those who use Cultural Marxism are oversensitive then I in response feel I should be oversensitive.

    Still I would have a hard time NOT criticizing a program where say the Imam acted like Rev Thorne and the Reverend acted like Amaar. It would be hard not to say that the show was not anti-Muslim and portrayed Islam unfairly.

    One thing I liked about Sleeper Cell is that it portrayed Islam realistically because it showed good Muslims as well as the bad ones out there plotting our destruction.

  193. Steve

    One thing I have a problem with in this show is how Amaar doesn’t dress like a stereotypical Imam (dress more like Baber). If this show is really about us trying to get over “our prejudices” about Islam then having an Imam that looks like an Imam (beard and all) but learning to see him as a “good person” I would think would be important.

    Having Amaar dress normally just sidesteps this issue.

  194. Steve

    If truth be known Nahida I do find you fairer than most Leftists out there.

    And thank you for defending Christianity. Muslims and Christians really should be allies against our common enemy.

    The secular humanists.

    The “Tree’s” of our society.

  195. Steve

    I just think it was so sad that you voted for Obama just because he was a minority and you thought by electing him you would be “Sticking it to the White Man”.

    “Identity Politics” is killing our nation.

  196. Nahida

    Yeah… that’s totally why I “voted” for him.

    /sarcasm.

  197. Steve

    Yep, because he certainly doesn’t represent Muslim or Christian values.

  198. Nahida

    I was about 124 days from my 18th birthday, so I didn’t vote for anyone.

    As for whom I supported, I’ve already explained my reasoning for the selection about 5 times on this forum, and I don’t feel like typing it again. =/

  199. Steve

    Well at least you didn’t vote for that evil manchild.

    But you were taken in by his cult of personality.

  200. Nahida

    /facepalm

    What’s this Steve? I thought I was for him because he was Black!

    This cult of personality nonsense, if you’re going to insist desperately (you truly seem to be seeking every excuse possible) is completely irrelevant to whether someone would be in office with good or evil intentions.

    Other than this irrelevance, I wasn’t “taken” by anything.

    I quote myself:

    I did support him, grudgingly, when he ran against McCain. Originally I was always for Clinton–and not because I’m a feminist either, which is why Palin never cut it for me–but because I was unimpressed with both Obama and McCain. But once she was out, I did go with Obama. Not because he was black or had a Muslim background…

    But because McCain was flimsy, and then there was that ditzy piece of work who was a heartbeat away from being president if he won the election. And the last thing I wanted was a Republican president. I have nothing against Conservatives, but I very much detest the current state of the Republican party. Even they don’t seem to know what they’re doing. They seem to have only one game plan: play opposites.

    I don’t see how anyone could still be behind McCain with that woman!

  201. Steve

    What’s this Steve? I thought I was for him because he was Black!

    That was part of the whole “cult of personality” thing.

    And you could be against McCain and Obama. I was.

    And Palin is a great person. I don’t know if I could support her for President but I might. I am a Bobby Jindal fan myself. (Governor Louisiana)

  202. Nahida

    No it wasn’t, or JFK wouldn’t be categorized with him in the song you posted.

    And what… so you just didn’t vote even when you could?

    Stop complaining then. =/ Geesh.

    And I don’t know what kind of “person” Palin is because obviously I don’t know her personally, but her incoherence is much more dangerous than being an unbelievable annoyance if she ever becomes president. I don’t think even she understands what she’s saying!

    If you think I supported Obama cause he’s Black, saying you’d support Palin cause she’s pretty is fair game.

    Of course, I don’t believe that (though I see no other reason anyone would support her, if you can even call that a reason) but that’s how irrational you are.

  203. Nahida

    CLINTON 2012

    if she bothers =/

  204. Steve

    You are hopeless. You are part of the reason our society is becoming so decadent.

  205. Nahida

    Yeah, me and everyone else who doesn’t appreciate Palin’s gorgeous looks or recognize she can just as easily be part of this whole cult of personality thing (what else does she have to offer?).

    Damn us to hell! How dare we fail to applaud how strikingly cute she becomes when she can’t answer a question!

  206. Mike

    Damn you to hell Nahida! Damn you for not believing a political candidate’s cute personality is a perfectly acceptable criterion. As for her ability to coherently answer a question, it’s because she is fitting in with all of the other politicians. No one actually cares if she can answer a question soundly; if she could she, quite frankly, would not be in politics. Everyone knows a successful politician relies on physical features to get elected; who gives a rat’s ass for what the person actually believes, honestly.

    And Steve, stop being a hypocrite. Voting for a politician because she’s “attractive” is on the same level as voting for a politician because he’s black. =]

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