Season 3 – Episode 20 – Can I get a witness

Synopsis: Rayyan and JJ’s wedding day is finally here, but with chaos at every turn, Rayyan, JJ and Amaar must smooth things over if they want to survive the day.

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

Videos courtesy of  Mydien

What did you think of this episode? How does it compare to the previous episode? Are there any topics from the episode that you want to discuss?

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237 Comments

Filed under Season 3 - Episode 20

237 responses to “Season 3 – Episode 20 – Can I get a witness

  1. ** SPOILER ALERT **
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    Well… you knew SOMETHING was gonna happen between them! …didn’t expect it to be JJ, though. I guess now she’s free to marry Ammar!! Woo hoo!

  2. Sh

    I am sooooooooooo glad that they didn’t get married!!!

  3. happy

    so when is the next season? I can not wait for it!

  4. NaturalLawRocks

    Wow! What a plot twist! I am anxious for next season now.

  5. Anna

    what the hell? this whole time they made us believe that this marriage was gonna happen, and then all of a sudden this twist?! I think we all always wanted Ammar and Rayyan together, but I thought that was over long time ago! Now, Ammar and Rayyan are for sure getting married.

  6. Nuchtchas

    I’m glad Rayyan didn’t say no and that it was JJ, the wedding seemed right for Rayyan but what was JJ gaining there, he seemed like a puppy being lead around by her most of the time.

  7. aysel

    I agree! Woo Woo! Let’s have another season. This time around let’s see if Amar can be a MAN. Let’s have some little Muslim babies :), let’s get some new characters, develop Fred and Fatima’s friendship, and get Babar entangled in a friendship too.

  8. Agony

    Guys, if you start speculating about Amar and Ryan again the writers will probably keep them apart on purpose, so please don’t ruin this guys.

    And what the heck?! all this time I thought Ryan would finally wake up and see that she was marrying her puppy, and that she’d be walking all over him! Instead we get JJ seeing that he’d be marrying someone too mighty for him to handle?!

    Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to track down some producers and blackmail them to make some kind of happy happy ending for the next season otherwise they might give me a heart attack.

  9. S.Berry

    Is this the season finale?

  10. s.lariza

    so when will the new season start?

    Even though they had it as if JJ and Rayyan would get married I knew that in the end they would not.

    I want next season to be all about Rayyan and Amar! But do you think that Amar’s parents would like Rayyan? And would Rayyan be ready to start another relationship, particularly with Amar?
    Please tell me what you guys think!

  11. BigFan

    Great final episode – I too was in tears with Rayyan!
    Does anyone know when new Season 4 starts?

    I just hope they develop the characters’ storylines further! My own ideas are:
    1) Amar & Rayyan chemistry/romance increasing leading up to their perfect marriage. This MUST happen eventually otherwise there will be uproar!!!!
    2) Fred Tupper to be more interested in becoming a Muslim via Fatima & Amar, but remain in a dilemma as to what his non-muslim friends will think.
    3) Rev Duncan Magee & Amar get together agree to find similarities between the Bible & Quran – and share with it with the wider Mercy community. e.g. Jesus, Moses, Companions of the Cave, etc.,
    4) Dippy Ann Mayor receives big planning application for Mercy’s “first purpose built mosque” – by Yasser of course!
    5) Barbar holds Hajj Pilgrimage demo presentation for people interested in going to Mecca but struggles to follow the etiquettes from Amar (now that would be funny!)
    6) During Ramadhan spiritual levels increasing, with temptations still an issue all round. With interesting debates over how people fast in extreme northerm hemisphere with 6 months day/night. Also Barbar takes a team out camping on last night of ramadhan to sight new moon for Eid, but see’s something else instead & get’s scared! Fred Tupper thinks it’s some satanic werewolf moon ritual they’re going on!
    7) Barbar character becomes more hardcore Muslim to impress, but soon realises that love, peace, harmony is what what Islam really is by Amar
    8) Love the two bickering Muslim married couple – a great addition to the Season 3. Let’s develop their characters more!
    9) Fatima has debates with Barbar who questions source of her halal meat, after food poisoning outbreak. He offers to sacrifice meat by first buying sheep, goat & chickens and keeps them in the mosque yard!
    10) Barbar’s planning application made for Azaan to transmitted over loud speakers 5 times a day. Trial is granted, but debates over who should do the first Azaan, and Fred Tupper’s reaction in Mercy during the Fajar Azaan!
    11) Layla becoming interested in boys, but Barbar interfers by interrogating them first and then finds his own suitors for her!

    I just hope the CBC writers/producers read this!

  12. Dora

    those are nice ideas. sure will make the show more interesting. btw, it’s baber not barber. =)

  13. Bronwen

    I find it ironic that the best “chemistry” moment between Rayyan and JJ came as they decided their relationship was doomed to failure. I was getting swoopy feelings in my stomach from the way they were looking at each other — I really believed there was genuine longing there, perhaps for the first time in their story arc!

  14. khanner12

    the marriage was unislamic, amar didnt even read the nikah khutbah, well apparently he didnt have to. i think the show needs to be closer to islam and the values it teaches

  15. khanner12 just because they didn’t show it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen… maybe he just decided to insert a little speech before he closed it up and that’s the only part they showed.

  16. LMOTP

    SO WHEN IS THE NEXT SEASON?!!!!

  17. zainah

    I want Rayyan’s wedding dress

  18. Umar Said

    I am a muslim from Indonesia. I can confirm you that I’ve never heard of any Indonesian person by the name Nourma Carmichael. 🙂

    Btw, AFAIK, the wedding process depicted in the movie was not like that in reality, at least in Indonesia. In reality, both parties must run a process called ijab-qabul by the man and the father of the girl. The one in the movie is more like Christian style I often see on movies.

  19. barbarossa

    Yea the wedding seemed a little off to me… the Islamic contract has a set way from what I understand: the woman says she marries herself to the man (or her guardian does that) and the man accepts it, they don’t both “enter into this marriage”.

    Aside from that awesome episode, though I personally would it find it super cheesy if Amaar and Rayyan got married. I think Amaar is kinda over Rayyan by now anyway and Rayyan needs to learn how to chill out, she’s far too commanding.

    Looking forward to the next season insha’Allah… whenever it starts.

  20. AJ

    Islam as a System

    Islam is not a religion nor is it a cult. It is a complete system. Islam has religious, legal, political, economic and military components. The religious component is a beard for all the other components. Islamization occurs when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their so-called ‘religious rights.’

    When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agree to ‘the reasonable’ Muslim demands for their ‘religious rights,’ they also get the other components under the table.

    As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone. In fact, they may be featured in articles and films, stereotyped for their colorful uniqueness:

    At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs:

    From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply.

    At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islam is not to convert the world but to establish Sharia law over the entire world. When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions (Paris — car-burnings). Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats (Amsterdam – – Mohammed cartoons).

    After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning:

    At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare:

    From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:

    After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide:

    100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ — the Islamic House of Peace — there’s supposed to be peace because everybody is a Muslim:

    Of course, that’s not the case. Muslims then start killing each other for a variety of reasons.

    ‘Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; and the tribe against the world and all of us against the infidel. — Leon Uris, ‘The Haj’

    It is good to remember that in many, many countries, such as France , the Muslim populations are centered around ghettos based on their ethnicity.. Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. Therefore, they exercise more power than their national average would indicate.

    So, what stage is Canada at?

  21. Steve

    I love Bigfan’s ideas.

    However I would probably have the Azaan issue play out differently.

    It used to be where in some towns the church would have bells that would play on the hour or at the very least at noon. It wasn’t so much a religious statement as much as a useful way for the people of the town to keep time. Now days it is hard pressed to find such a church due to the complaints of some as to it being “noise pollution”

    Therefore I don’t believe that Azaan being broadcast would be tolerated in a Canadian town. It would not be so much a religious issue but a NIMBY one. Nimby stands for Not in My BackYard and defines a issue where a neighborhood complains about something because they believe it effects their neighborhood negatively.

    So, yeah Barber can try to have Azzan broadcast over speakers but in the end it should be portrayed as Barber being wrong for trying to push that on Mercy’s society.

  22. Steve

    As for the building the Mosque thing, well we knew the church was doomed from the beginning of the series.

    Before the end of this show the Muslims will own the church property and turn it into a Mosque property. Hopefully though Amaar will be decent enough and let McGee and the two or three Anglican parishioners he will have left meet in some room in the Mosque for their Sunday Christian worship.

    Wouldn’t it be funny (and quite telling) if Amaar didn’t after all McGee did for him.

  23. Abbas Karimjee

    For those of you interested on information regarding the fourth season , you can visit my site at
    http://abbaskarimjee.wordpress.com/2009/04/01/the-future-of-little-mosque-on-the-prairie/ [copy-paste address if link does not work]

  24. far2long

    From what I’ve seen at three muslim weddings and from my own knowledge of islamic marital jurisprudence, the bride isn’t required to be given away by her father and the nikah specifically requires the consent of the bride and groom, not the groom and the bride’s father.

    From what I understand of Muslim marriages, the marriage is less of a sacrament (as seen in Christianity) and more of a formalized legal and social contract agreed upon between the husband and wife. In the contract, either of the two is free to include conditions and violation of said conditions is grounds for divorce. This is similar to the pre-nuptial agreements that have developed in the last few decades.

    With regards to the episode, I agree with Bronwen that the ending scene between JJ and Rayyan was one of the most touching in the entire series. I was honestly shocked that JJ said no, since I thought the writers were moving away from the Rayyan-Amaar coupling. I was really hoping that the writers were moving in a more mature direction, showing and overcoming the trivial and brief attraction that Amaar had with Rayyan at the end of season 2 and the star of season 3. I suppose we shouldn’t have been too shocked given the awkward looks at the party in ‘Sweet Sixteen’ and at the end of ‘Double Troubles’.

    For the next season, I think that BigFan’s ideas are awesome. Just to add my two cents, I’d love to see more of Fatima’s son (Jamal) and see more of her relationship with him since we’ve already gotten a great view of Baber and Layla’s relationship. In addition, I’d really like to see the Mayor get taken down a few pegs since its been seen that she’s largely incompetent and corrupt. I hope everyone is excited for the next season.

    Later and Salams.

  25. far2long

    Also, I think my new favorite character is Joe. He won me over with the quote: “Seriously. There are libraries, the internet. It doesn’t cost you anything to educate yourself.” I’d also love to see more of him showing his intellectual side, maybe at Sarah’s book club or getting involved to solve problems between the local Muslim community and the wider Mercy population.

  26. Bronwen

    Joe is fantastic! I love that one of the first criticisms of LMotP was, “oh, all the Muslims are educated and sophisticated, and all the white people are hicks,” giving Joe as an example, and now they’re completely subverting the “redneck farmer” stereotype with him.

  27. “Dad?”
    “Layla, the grown-ups are talking.”
    “I know.” (keeps talking)

    LOL !

  28. Anum

    does anyone know when next season is suppose to start?? I love this show and am soo glad Rayyan and JJ did not get married, they weren’t right for each other, I agree Ammar and Rayyan should get married and start a family too! and we should find a lady for Babar and a man for Fatima and also see more of Fatima’s son

  29. Laszlo Toth, Jr

    Christianity as a System

    Christianity is not a religion nor is it a cult. It is a complete system. Christianity has religious, legal, political, economic and military components. The religious component is a beard for all the other components. Christianization occurs when there are sufficient Christians in a country to agitate for their so-called ‘religious rights.’

    When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agree to ‘the reasonable’ Christian demands for their ‘religious rights,’ they also get the other components under the table.

    As long as the Christian population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone.

  30. Lotus Petal

    Kudos to Laszlo Toth, for giving AJ his answer with his own words. For the love of God! It is as if colonization and the crusades had never happened, look at Bosnia, if it were colonized by Muslims all those centuries, would the Bosnians speak Turkish or Bosnian, or would Serbs and Croatians still exist? And all the clash and bloodshed happens when the “Western” forces take the lead. Now tell me, were the Muslims and Christians living at peace all those years when the Ottomans were there, or not? Muslims are not bent on world domination, but I suspect colonialism (and hate-mongering) has never ended.

  31. AJ

    Here is an interesting video about what is happening with Muslims in the UK.

  32. Stan

    Ideas for Next Season:

    When an outoftowner briefly mistakes Amaar for a homosexual friend Amaar feels like his sense of tolerance and even his manhood has come into question.

    Out of towner from Toronto: Jayesh, what are you doing in the middle of nowhere?

    Amaar: I am not this Jayesh you say you know.

    Out of towner from Toronto: You sure look like Jayesh, “girl, if you want to be in the closet here then, whatever. Gosh, your butt is firmer than ever (hits Amaar on the butt).

    Amaar: GET AWAY FROM ME YOU FAG! I AM NOT YOUR JAYESH!

    (Everyone at Fatima’s place stops what they are doing and turn to look at him).

    Fred: Sheehs if I had used the word “Fag” I would have been arrested.

  33. Cal

    Getting back to the subject of the last episode of this season, here is a video about marriage in Islam.

  34. Ted Smith

    Going along with BigFan’s theme of future episodes of the show, I have an idea for one.

    The mayor organizes a “Folsom Street Fair” type event under the claim that it will raise money for the weak Mercy economy (yeah it’s weak but that doesn’t stop her from her taxpayer funded trips to China and stuff). What is the Folsom Street Fair?Well I would tell you to google it but you wouldn’t like what you find. It is an event that started in San Francisco (of course) where gays publicly go around naked or near naked and in fetish gear, whip each other in public, yeah having oral sex, and all kinds of unimaginable stuff. Yeah, right out on a public street. I have seen the photos.

    Toronto had a similar event from 2003-2007. Last year it was canceled. Was that due to Muslims? I don’t understand why so many are against Muslims. They actually might save Western Civilization.

    After seeing some of the photos that come from events like the Folsom Street Parade, heck I almost get the urge to slam planes into buildings. It should be no wonder why they hate us. They should hate us.

    Well, back to the idea. The mayor knows that having an Folsom Street fair will bring in tax revenue but she is going to have it right on the same street Fatima’s cafe is on. Tree and his dad love the idea because they will make lots of money (thought Hippies didn’t care about money? Yeah they are Hippicrites but all Hippies are). Fred is outraged because of course we know the radio station is across the street so indeed the street orgy will be on the same street as the radio station as well as Fatima’s Cafe.

    And Sarah, as a Muslim she faces a problem that not only Muslims but all people of conscience and values can face. It is her job as the mayor’s public relations director to promote this event but of course it would go against her Muslim values.

    So, what does the town’s Muslims do? I see an alliance between Fred and Fatima of course to try to stop it. Sarah is going to get caught in the middle. And Amaar? Now as a Muslim he should be strongly against the event but he hasn’t been one to be vocal on public issues. Even though he is technically the leader of Mercy’s Muslims he hasn’t really stood out when it comes to the public issues.

    The rest of the business community will probably be for this Folsom Street North because the economy is bad and no doubt people from all over Canada (and elsewhere) will swarm into Mercy for the event which will lift business for all.

    So, what will happen? Will Sarah have to quit to be a good Muslim? Is there any way to stop the mayor’s “Mercy Street Fair”?

  35. Muslim_Lady

    Any updates on when the next season is starting? I’m having withdrawal symptoms 😦

  36. Steve

    BigFan,

    I love your ideas for the show (well most of them).

    I have an idea for an episode.

    Baber is in Fred’s studio complaining about something. Fred has a coughing fit or starts choking on something or some other minor health thing that can be written in as the reason for suddenly leaving the studio and so Baber’s there all alone and the program director comes in panicking.

    The show is about to start, where’s Fred? Phones are ringing (perhaps he was talking to Baber off air during a commercial break which would make the situation even more dire than if the show was about to start.

    So Baber picks up the phone. Hello, this is Baber?

    Roll Credits.

    Fred comes in to the cafe across the street all mad. How dare you Baber. Baber explained he was just doing what the station manager told him to do. Suddenly the station manager rushes in telling everyone that the phones are off the hook. Everyone is calling in to tell off the funny arab sounding guy. Some even thinks that it was really Fred doing a character. But they all love to hate this Barber character. They have never gotten such a reaction.

    The Station Manager decides to turn Fred’s show into a Fred and Baber show which of course makes Fred angry because he is used to it being his show alone.

    —Any way, that’s my idea.

  37. Ted Smith

    Here is another idea.

    Rayyan does a public service interview with Fred regarding Swine Flu.

    Fred: Now Doctor Hamoudi for the benefit of the radio audience who of course can’t see you, I need to tell them that you are wearing a hair scarf thingy.

    Rayyan: It’s called a hijab.

    Fred: Muslim women wear those. In fact you are a Muslism.

    Rayyan: Yeah Fred, as you well know I am a Muslim but that has nothing to do with the issue of swine flu that I am tal..

    Fred (interrupting): I am getting to that. Now Doctor Hamoudi isn’t it true that you Muslim types are not that fond of pigs. They are animal nongrata with you folks.

    Rayyan. Eatting pork is haraam in Islam

    Fred: By that you mean forbidden, verbottem, not allowed by your Mohammed.

    Rayyan: But swine flu isn’t even transmitted by eating pork and that is what I am here to discuss today. I am here as a medical professional to discuss how one can minimize their exposure to the H1N1 virus commonly known as Swine Flu, now people should wash…

    Fred: Yeah, yeah you people are always washing but what I find so interesting is that of all the animals out there this isn’t the beaver flu, or the bear flu, no somehow the target of this flu is the sworn enemy of the Muslims, the poor ole pig. Do you see where I am going here.

    Rayyan (exasperated): No Fred, I don’t have a clue. I am here to give your listeners some important information in order to stop the spread of swine flu and you are making this whole thing to out to be some Muslim conspiracy.

    Fred: Hold on here. No one said the “C” word. All I am saying here is Muslims, Pigs, Flu, lots of coincidencies here don’t you think? Perhaps that’s are they are, just coincidences, just a bunch of coincidences? Right Doctor Hamoudi?

    Rayyan: Whatever…Fred… Now a fever – which is a temperature of 38ºC the key symptom, combined with other complaints which may include a cough, sore throat, body aches, chills and aching limbs. Some people with the virus have also reported nausea and diarrhoea.

    Fred: Yeah, just one big coincidence. The poor pig, never did anything to Muslims, poor little Wilbur, just happened to get sick, out of all the animals in the animal kingdom, it happens to be the one animal that the Muslims have singled out for jihad.

    Rayyan: This is a Serious Illness here. I don’t appreciate you turning it into one of your anti-muslim rants. Now, people are most infectious soon after they develop symptoms, but they cease to be a risk once those symptoms have disappeared. The incubation period may be as little as two days.

    Fred: Yeah, poor Wilbur, never did anything against anyone even Muslims, yet he is their enemy number one.

    Rayyan: Now if you develop any of the symptoms go seek immediate medical attention.

    Fred: Yeah folks, just go to your friendly neighborhood Muslim Doctor, it all just a big coincidence, so says your friendly neighborhood Muslim Doctor.

    Rayyan: FRED!

  38. cant wait for the next season.

  39. Mo

    I love this show because it shows white people for the trash they are.

    But this show does it even better.

  40. AJ

    Here is an interesting video about what is happening with Muslims in the UK.

    http://news.ronatvan.com/2009/08/10/panorama-documentary-muslim-first-british-second/

  41. AJ

    Little Sleeper Cell on the Prairie?

    Check out this video.

  42. Mo

    Abdul Raheem Green refutes Ammar. Well, Ammar is a fictional character but He refutes the type of theology that the type of Imam that this actor is portraying is promoting.

  43. Mo

    Ammar is a “Coke Cola” Muslim.

  44. AJ

    Michael Jackson was a Muslim when he died!

  45. AJ

    Michael Jackson converted to Islam almost a year ago. Yet, he still died as a perverted drug user.

  46. AJ

    Not all Imams are Ammar.

  47. AJ

    Not all Imams are Coke Cola Muslims.

  48. AJ

    I wish the show would balance the message. Perhaps have some bad Muslims in it that Ammar has to constantly fight.

    Maybe there can be an episode where Ammar does report some new members of the Mosque to Canadian authorities.

    Good Muslims exist but we also need to be aware that there are Muslims that exist as well that are trying to infiltrate. And Patriotic Muslims are going to be the first line of defense against them.

  49. Craig

    Okay, since JJ has dishonored the Hamoudi name by refusing to marry Rayyan does Yasir have to kill JJ or Rayyan or both?

    How about JJ’s father. They had a deal with him and yet it didn’t happen. Does that mean that Yasir has to kill him too?

  50. Nahida

    Why is everyone spamming this place with videos?

    I’m going to ignore AJ because anyone who expects a clip from FOX News to be taken seriously has lost all credibility…

    Mo–

    Abdul Raheem Green is under the impression that every Muslim would be a saint and follow God’s rules exactly as they are. If that were true, there would be no need for a government in a Muslim country, because everyone would be perfect. But it’s not that way, and when you don’t listen to the voice of the people–and I’m not talking about in matters of halal or haraam which he seems to believe has any relevance at all in this; you can’t vote on this it’s obvious–you end up with an emirate with only one ruler, and that ruler will not follow God in the long run. Every Muslim country in existence today has proved this. There is no accountability for the leaders if there is no democracy–they can make up whatever rules they want and pass it as the word of God. Democracy certainly is better than a monarchy if the monarch is a man and not God.

    He brought up homosexuality–but his fears have no reason. If you are Muslim, you are agreeing that homosexuality is wrong. You can’t have children this way, and a large family is extremely valuable. Homosexuality puts the Ummah in danger by reducing the numbers of the population. If a Muslim is a homosexual, he or she knows that he or she is sinning. But this law does not apply to non-Muslims unless they are of a faith that also does not allow it. They are not expected to work for the Ummah because they don’t have the Islamic responsibility that comes with being Muslim. Understanding this is as vital as understanding that homosexuality is not allowed among Muslims, because Islam also insists that we do not by force press our religion on others, especially their private lifestyles. In conversion it is only our duty to inform and to display a good example. Violence is only allowed when it was delivered to us in the first place. We must be the object of the first attack, and then jihad is allowed. This is as obvious as what is halal or haraam and as obvious as homosexuality being forbidden.

    But it is as easily forgotten.

    When we don’t have a democracy, the ruler, as we have seen–whether a single person or a group of extremists who have abandoned the laws of Islam for their own corrupt culture–will greedily do whatever he wants forging his reason in Islam’s name. Abdul Raheem Green takes an extremely simplified definition of democracy. It is a broader concept than he seems to understand. He specifies that the shura is not a democracy–but he assumes that the shura will be a group of good, knowledgeable men. The caliphate was created after the Prophet’s death, and in the Qur’an, as you’re probably aware, the word caliph has a different meaning. Adam is called a caliph in the Qu’ran because he was responsible for carrying out God’s orders on earth. Muhammand (P) was commanded to remind us that we also have this responsibility, as we are all to carry out God’s orders. An education in all subjects is highly encouraged and we are all to be knowledgeable in our religion. We are a community as a whole! This resembles a democracy in the sense that it involves every Muslim (again, assuming we’re talking about a Muslim country).

    The way Abdul Raheem Green is viewing democracy is similiar to how he is viewing the West–as a matter of fact, he seems to equate them. But the West is not all evil, nor is it all good, and the same goes for democracy. The good of democracy, as with the good of the West, is only destroyed by a lack of morals. The fact that he brought up voting on halal and haraam and on homosexuality is completely irrelevant (in a Muslim country) because in Islam the role of democracy would NOT be to vote on these things, but to keep in check by the voices of the people those who make up the government and carry out these commands–because God knows that human beings will stray, as they have already in these so called “Islamic” countries where education is not all at a priority and women and children are killed.

    I am not refuting what this man is saying. I’m simply pointing out that his definitions don’t cover entire concepts, and that is why he feels that “democracy” is not embedded in Islam, while I feel it is, by a different meaning. If he were to disagree with me, or I with him, it would be based solely on words and their definitions–a more complicated and extravagant relative of De Morgan’s laws, which I’ve found occur here in the comments quite often.

  51. Steve

    Pamorama is a BBC show.

  52. Steve

    Islam and especially Shariah Law is a threat to Western Style Democracy. That much is completely clear.

    Nahida, Abdul Raheem Green is at least being honest about that.

  53. Steve

    One of the things I would like to see this coming season on Little Mosque on the Prairie is Baber take over the natural food store next door to Fatima’s and turn it into halal food store.

  54. Steve

    Other ideas for the show. Stuff that we would like to see happen or is sure to happen before the show is canceled.

    1) The Church BECOMES a Mosque (well that we knew was inevitable from the beginning). Will Amaar let McGee and the two or three parishioners he has left meet there?

    2) Fatima becomes Mayor.

    3) Yusuf Islam (Cat Stephens) makes a cameo.

    4) Layla becomes a Doctor. Actually that should happen at the end of her own series. Yeah, they should have her go off to college and it can be a situation comedy about trying to be a Muslim at a Western University. They could call it “a Different Canadian Comedy about Muslims”.

    5) Baber co-hosts Freds show (perhaps a once a week thing)

    6) Layla’s friend “Jane” (that blond) kisses Layla. Layla struggles with her feelings over that but of course Islam wins in the end.

    7) Layla’s friend “Jane” (that blond) gets pregnant (she’s one confused girl. I guess you would call her “bisexual” or “bi-curious”) and her mean ole Dad kicks her out when he finds out. So Layla takes her in and eventually Islam gives Jane the courage to stand up to her abusive boyfriend (kid’s father). She of course converts to Islam similar to that BBC movie.

  55. Steve

    The Mary Tyler Moore show was a successful comedy in the 1970s. In the end of that series they had one of the main characters do a spin off. But what was unique is that the character’s spin off show was not a comedy but a drama. I am of course talking about “Lou Grant” which became a successful show in its own right.

    So, I was thinking, perhaps at the end of Little Mosque in the Prairie instead of having Rayyan and Amaar get married they can have it where Rayyan is rejected by Amaar and so she leaves Mercy to go to a big city hospital. It could be a medical drama.

    Rayyan Hamoudi MD.

    And then I do think they should spin Layla off in a year or two. Have Baber make a cameo the first episode when he helps her move into her dorm room. And perhaps like once a season or so have a character from Little Mosque drop by.

    That’s what they did with the Cosby Show.

  56. Steve

    Or it could be that Rayyan gets this great medical job so she has to choose between Amaar and her career, and she chooses her career and this new job.

    But at the end of that series perhaps they could have her go back to Mercy (after something really painful happens) and back to Amaar.

  57. Steve

    A bunch of Sikhs move into town which allows the Muslims to feel displaced as “number one foreign religion everyone must act so tolerant towards”. But at the end the Sikhs do move on.

    Baber “those people dress funny”.

    Fatima: “We were here first”.

    Amaar (to Fred): For the last time no, they aren’t another branch of Muslims.

  58. Mo

    Jane gets pregnant before becoming a Muslim so it’s Islam that redeems her of course.

    In the episode Amaar could talk about Maryam and also in the episode it would show how a bunch of strangers non-whites showed Jane the love that her own white Father and white boyfriend didn’t (white men suck!).

    The Show could be called White Canadian Girl.

  59. Steve

    8) The Mayor invites a Gay Group to have their sex street fair in Mercy (think Folsom Street Fair) but somehow the Muslims (with the help of Fred) stops it.

  60. Steve

    The owner of the Health Food Store, ie the Vegan Nazi, he had barred Baber from his store, remember?

    Well that has to be a civil rights violation so Amaar could help Baber sue the Vegan Nazi and as part of the judgment against the Vegan Nazi Baber gets the store. Which he turns into a Muslim store.

    One of the running gags could be that Baber is always at Fatima’s instead of minding the store. And also, Layla seems to be the business mind behind the store even though Barber is a professor of Economics and she hasn’t graduated from High School yet.

  61. Steve

    She’s a Doctor.

    and a Muslim…

    and she is not in Mercy anymore

    (scene of a car crashing into the ER).

    (another scene a bigoted bleeding parent, “I don’t want to be treated by a raghead”).

    But she is the one Doctor who will be on YOUR SIDE when you need help the most.

    Rayyan: “We are Doctors we are here to care for patients! We have to do better!”

    We have seen her in Mercy. Now she brings Mercy to the big city.

    Rayyan Hamoudi MD.

    Old Woman Patient: “You are only doctor here who treats as as people”.

    Coming soon….

  62. Steve

    Here’s a good episode idea.

    Joe Peterson finally decides, after a particularly pro-homosexual sermon by Rev. McGee that since the Anglican Church has now seems to be a total sell-out on the issue of homosexuality that he is going to convert to Islam.

    Joe changes his name to Akhim. Akhim Peterson.

  63. Steve

    Fred to Akhim after finding out that he is converting to Islam:

    “Say it ain’t so Joe. Please Joe, say it ain’t so.”

    (That comes from the Black Sox Scandal)

  64. Steve

    Rev McGee “Hi Joe.”

    Joe: “Akhim”

    Rev. McGee “Gesundheit”

    Fred: (on the air) Why does so many of them there Muslims names sound like you are coughing up phlegm?

  65. Steve

    Fred: I guess we can still be friends Joe.

    Akhim (Joe) : It’s it’s Akhim.

    Fred: Okay, Akhim

    Akhim (Joe): Watch where you spray your spit!

  66. Steve

    Baber: Why so mad Joe.

    Joe: Oh, that Rev. McGee just gave another one of his “homosexuals are God’s children’s sermons”. It seems like we hear more about Homosexuals in the Anglican Church these days then we do about God.

    Baber: Well, that Amaar, he might give coke cola sermons but even he doesn’t go as far as being pro-homosexual. Even with someone as liberal as he it’s still forbidden. Too bad you aren’t a Muslim.

    Joe: yeah, it’s is too bad I am not a Muslim, if I was I would never have to sit through one of McGee’s pro gay sermons ever again. Yeah, too bad I am not a Muslim, too bad..

    Joe: Wait. I can BECOME A MUSLIM!

  67. Steve

    Most Italian immigrants Aren’t Mafia. But most Italian immigrants knows someone in the Mafia or knows someone who knows someone in the Mafia.

    Most Muslims aren’t terrorists. But most Muslims know someone who knows someone who is an extremist/terrorist.

    So, I believe it would be good to have some bad Muslims on the show and the storyline could be about how Amaar and the rest of the people in the Mosque who are indeed good patriotic Canadians deal with the bad Muslims who hide among them.

  68. Steve

    Hold on everyone. It’s almost time. Two weeks to go!

    Monday, September 28
    8:30 p.m. Little Mosque on the Prairie
    (Season Premiere) Series IV – Eps 1 – Love Thy Neighbour

    Who will be the neighbour? Would it be a bunch of a bunch of Sikhs?

    Or even worse, Mormons?

  69. RevMagee Gone

    Magee is GONE!

    http://www.tv.com/little-mosque-on-the-prairie/love-thy-neighbour/episode/1296406/summary.html

    The man taking over for Reverend Magee wants Amaar and the Muslims out of the church but soon learns that this is not a popular action with his congregation.

  70. Steve

    Actually I believe it is going to be on at 8 PM Monday September 28th.

    And indeed it looks like Magee has been replaced by a new pastor.

    I never liked how Magee never seemed to be doing anything for his church. He was definitely “burned out” but that was probably the point of his character. So whereas I hated that about Magee I knew that he was probably accurately reflecting the state of the Anglican church in Canada.

    Kind of like how the Mayor while she might not have likable traits she does reflect a certain type of public official (she reminds me of my mayor).

    I wonder if the new pastor might actually (for a change) be trying to increase his flock. I guess he is going to be younger so perhaps while “competition” isn’t really the right word for it maybe he will be more of a challenge in the fact that he hasn’t given up on his church yet as Magee did.

    I more or less liked Magee but perhaps if they could have the new guy be “like Amaar” in that like Amaar he is energetic about his faith it would be interesting to see that dynamic at work.

    The first thing he is going to do is try to boot the Muslims out. Which I know sounds cold but if he really wants to make a go of this Christianity thing he probably feels that he is going to need all the room the church has to offer. Magee on the other hand was coasting because he saw the Anglican church as a dying institution.

    It will be interesting to see if they have Magee’s replacement be liberal or conservative. I guess they are going to have him be an adversary at first because in this episode he is going to try to get rid of the Muslim. But he shouldn’t be judged too harshly for that because he is just trying to make the most of the church that he has been given as possible. It will be interesting to see if they have him “burn out” soon in the show.

    That would be too bad. I hope they have it where he at least tries to make the most of his flock even as worthless as they may seem to be at times. Magee just gave up on them and went through the motions. Perhaps where Magee kind of guided Amaar, this guy can be guided a little by Amaar.

  71. Steve

    Go to the link below for the full article.

    http://tinyurl.com/qxctd7

    ” The smarmy Little Mosque on the Prairie, an insult to the intelligence and to any semblance of social reality, is a direct result of 9/11, one of the more harmless manifestations of western self-flagellation, but in retrospect sure to be seen as one of the more embarrassing.”

  72. Steve

    The New Reverend’s name is going to be “Thorn”

    Sounds like he is will be more of an adversary than an ally of Amaar.

    It should make make for more interesting dynamics. I am glad they are going to have a religious character on the show that hasn’t given up on Christianity like Magee did.

    http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/690760

    When fans of the hit CBC show Little Mosque on the Prairie curl up on the couch for the new fall season, they might notice something different about Mercy, Sask. – the fictional town of 14,000 now has its very own branch of the Toronto-Dominion Bank.

    Mercy’s newest corporate resident debuts in the episode to air Oct. 5. William Thorn, the new reverend in town, is trying to figure out how much money he has to throw himself a party.

    He visits the TD to learn his account balance. He has a comical exchange with the teller, quickly becomes distracted by another opportunity and leaves when he realizes he doesn’t have as much money as he thought.

  73. Steve

    If he is going to throw himself a party it sounds like he is going to be a little full of himself.

    I hope they don’t over play this “self importance” characteristic in the character.

    Sure, it’s something that Reverends often have and if is done well it could have some comedic effect, but if is overplayed then it could damage how we feel about this character.

    Let’s see if the writers can walk the find line between “honorable adversary” and “comic book bad guy”. They have had trouble doing that with Fred though they still have been able to somewhat make him a likable adversary. They have been successful with Baber though because I do believe that the actor there has some respect for his character and understands even when the character gets out of hand he does so from the best of intentions.

    What I want to see from Thorn is a good guy who wants the best for his church but the way he goes about it often leads to conflict with the Muslims. If they just make him “evil” then the character will fail. The actor needs to be able to portray how from the character’s perspective he wants to do good and thinks that his decisions are decent and just.

  74. Steve

    Here is another New Character in the show.

    A white “student reporter”?

    http://www.thestar.com/living/article/686385

    “In his first episode of Little Mosque on the Prairie, on which he has a recurring role as the nosy new school reporter Zack Whitman…”

    Obviously I guess he would be in Layla story lines and now that Baber teaches at the high school I guess there too, but really I don’t see how such a character will play out.

    I guess the writers want to somehow have a “how the media misrepresents Islam theme.” But they had the character Nate Shore who was a local newspaper reporter, and I guess they didn’t really get what they were trying for with him. I don’t see how making the newspaper guy even lower by making him merely a student reporter is going to get them where they want to be, wherever that is.

    For a “nosy reporter” character to work there has to be something for him to be “nosy” about. Sure you can make it that he gets the story wrong all the time but that works better with a Nate character who doesn’t have a politically correct principal to worry about.

    Surely this is supposed to be “temptation for Layla”. Tree was too much the drugged out slacker type for Layla to be even more than slightly interested in. But obviously they are going to have this character always in her face in one way or the other.

    I believe they are going to have even less success with this character than they did with Nate. But we shall see.

  75. Steve

    Whenever I think of “Nosy Student Reporter” I think of shows where the character has special powers that he or she is trying to hid from the world and so has to always be careful of the Nosy Reporter.

    Zack hanging around Layla for a “Story” won’t really work because it isn’t like she is going to have to hide her “secret identity” from him.

    I see a stupid storyline here where Zack is going to try to get “the real scoop” on the local Muslims, but like I said I think that would work better with someone who is actually a reporter than one who is a student reporter.

    It would only be an interesting storyline if Layla had something to hide like Clark did in Smallville. A “misinterpretation” episode where Zach thinks something is going on when it isn’t will just be stupid.

  76. Steve

    I rather see more episodes with Jane, or some other girl friend of Layla (not in a sexual way just a friend who is a female classmate) than a guy classmate who is always around Layla.

    Though I would also like to see more episodes with Fatima’s son.

    I guess with Zach they are trying for more muslim non-muslim interaction from a male/female teenager perspective and how that dynamic would play itself out (in a nonsexual manner of course).

    Baber is going to despise Zach.

  77. Steve

    If Zack (because he honestly misinterprets what is going on) is going to write a story about the teacher being a terrorist, I still don’t think it’s creditable because there is total adminstrative control over the school newspaper.

    But I guess I have to see how it plays out won’t I.

    But usually a nosy reporter character only works in a show where there is something being hidden that the reporter can be nosy about.

  78. Steve

    Hey, Nahida did you ever have guy friends in High School?

    And I really mean friend, not anything other than that.

    Is that even possible? Of course the movie “When Harry met Sally” says NO!

    And I believe Islam says the same thing.

    So, I really don’t know how this is going to be handled. I guess there is little Layla can do if Zach always comes up and talks to her. As long as he is not being completely obnoxious and isn’t hitting on her I don’t see her as being rude to him.

    Or would it be appropriate for her to say “I know you aren’t hitting on me or anything like that but still my religion says I can’t talk to you.” ? I don’t think there’s such a rule though, Like I said I don’t see him hitting on her. Not at first at least. He just wants to use her for some type of “life as a Muslim” story for the school newspaper.

  79. Steve

    (another scene a bigoted bleeding parent, “I don’t want to be treated by a raghead”).

    I meant Patient.

    The bigoted patient doesn’t want to be treated by her but at the end of the episode he finds out that she was the only doctor who cared.

    “After all I said about you still you saved my life”

    Rayyan “I am a Doctor”. That’s what we do!

    Yes, a new drama is what they could put her character into after this series.

    Either that or it could be a comedy show where she works in a hospital but half the time she is imagining things happening to her. And she has this “internal dialogue going on all the time”.

    “Thinking to herself” “Being the Muslim at this hospital is very hard. Everyone treats you differently. “She imagines herself dressed as a terrorist and everyone is running away from her.

    Theme song (“I’m no superman”), I have left Mercy and now I am here all alone, yes, I am the only Muslim doctor here. I’m the only Muslim doctor here…

    Doctor Cox: And look we have a Doctor from Canada here with a headscarf..Oh Pleaze tell me you are one of those oh, so politically correct Muslims since we have already met our quota of gay doctors with Todd here. Look everybody look at Doctor Hamoudi and let us all imagine that Cat Stevens is in the ward drumming peace train.

    Turk hummming”oh Ive been smiling lately, dreaming about the world as one…
    And I believe it could be, some day its going to come…”

    Doctor Cox… Oh, my God, you are actually doing it… you are actually imagining Cat Stevens being in here…

    Turk “No I am not” Turns to Yusef “you’ve still got it, man”..

  80. Steve

    strumming, not drumming.

  81. Steve

    Ted’s a capella band could always play “Cat Stevens” songs around her.

  82. RevMagee Gone

    As Steve was saying Rev Magee is going to be replaced by Rev Thorn. I think that the name kind of indicates that it is going to be a kind of adversarial relationship.

    It will be on at 8:30 PM.

    Monday, September 28
    8:30 p.m. Little Mosque on the Prairie
    (Season Premiere) Series IV – Eps 1 – Love Thy Neighbour

    http://www.cbc.ca/littlemosque/

  83. Nahida

    “Hey, Nahida did you ever have guy friends in High School?”

    Well of course I did, though my closest friends (in the sense that our friendship is above even conversation, so we can go months without communication but the next time around we can open up as if nothing’s changed) are women.

    “And I really mean friend, not anything other than that.

    Is that even possible?”

    Do you mean, is it possible to have a guy friend without it being something else? …Well, I’ve certainly managed to pull it off. If there’s enough distance there won’t be any interference from other emotions. But when it gets to the point where he’s asking you out–to which it shouldn’t, because I can usually see the gap closing before it happens–it’s time to reinstate the distance. You can have very meaningful conversations and the same amount of loyalty and support and the whole deal without it ever quite becoming something else. And if it is coming near fulfilling its potential to become something else, it’s visible from a mile away, at least if delivered by non-Muslim men.

    And sometimes by Muslim men. Like Amaar… if this was real life Rayyan wouldn’t be clueless. But I guess that’s less of an issue since in this case the man would still have an ounce of hope since marriage would be possible. (Which might be more of an issue if he then gets close enough to be rejected.)

    I heard a Muslim man once talking about how men and women in Islam shouldn’t “be friends” because someone is going to get hurt, since it’s impossible, in his perceptive, to be friends and nothing other than that. But then he also pointed out that it is most likely to be the man who is crushed, because he’ll become close to the woman and begin having feelings for her only to discover he was categorized into the “friend zone.” This seemed a contradiction to me–if there is indeed a “friend zone” then it is possible to be a friend… and nothing other than that.

    The friend zone is a (handy) excuse. I don’t believe it really exists, but rather that it can be made to exist or to not exist depending on the woman. The human mind is extremely easy to manipulate, and its discipline is very important in Islam. What I’m saying is that the transition from friend to anything else can be prevented if it needs to be–most certainly if you’re dealing with a man who isn’t Muslim, and optionally when you are dealing with a Muslim man with whom you have the possibility of having a serious, validated, virtuous marriage.

    He’d then have to pray she doesn’t break his heart. And chances are that a virtuous Muslim woman would not have taken the friendship to that extent of depth unless she intended on marrying him. That is, if she ever saw the proposal coming.

  84. Steve

    Well I guess we will have to wait and see as we haven’t even seen this Zach character yet.

    But I don’t think he is going to work out. Just like Nate didn’t work out.

    Like I said, if Layla had super powers perhaps “a noisy student reporter” would work into a story line. But a “noisy student reporter” who just wants to write a story about what it is like to be a female teenage Muslim in Canada just becomes an annoyance. Not the actor’s fault. I kind of understand what the writers are trying to do with him but it just doesn’t work.

    But perhaps it will. Perhaps a good statement about “Bric- a-brac” racism could be made here. I mean Zack wants to be Layla’s friend sure because he is attracted to her but mostly so he can feel sophisticated and worldly by having a “Muslim friend”. “Oh I understand Muslims. I have a Muslim friend”(No he would never say that out loud but that is what he is thinking). He really doesn’t want to get to know Layla as a person. He just sees her as a curiosity he can use for a story. And as a way for him to feel superior to everyone around him who “don’t have a Muslim friend”.

    I hope that Layla tells him off just as well as she told off tree!

  85. Steve

    If I was one of the writers I would have Layla say something like this to Zack:

    Layla: You just want to be friends to “the Muslim Girl” so you can go around proving you are “so tolerant”. Perhaps you feel such a need to visually show people you are so tolerant because deep down you know you aren’t!

    Jane: You go girl!

    Zack: I, I, I..

    Fatima: That’s the first time I have ever seen that kid at a lost for words…

    Of course then I guess because he is going to be a recurring character he will probably have to write something in the newspaper apologizing.

    But after that storyline where does one go with such a character? Sure I guess they could have an “Three’s Company” type episode where he overhears the Muslims talking about something and he thinks they are planning a terrorist attack or something like that, but after those two obvious plotlines… where does the character go from there?

  86. Steve

    I think far better than bringing in Zack they should have developed Jane more. She really was only in one episode or so yet I found her to be interesting and I would love to see more Jane-Layla interaction.

    And like you said for females their closest (non romantic) relationships are with other females and to see how her being a Muslim works into a friendship with a non Muslim female would be fun to watch.

    And of course where’s Fatima’s son? They could have developed him more rather than bringing in Zack.

    But they probably felt they needed more white characters on the show.

    But instead of bringing in all these new characters they should really focus on the ones they currently have.

  87. Kevin

    Layla should actually do the “air quotes”.

    And then say, sorry, I won’t be your air quote friend.

    I could see Zack be in like one or two episodes. Perhaps that’s what they mean by recurring character. He will probably not even last as long as Nate did.

    I bet Jane is going to have a crush on Zack though. And Fatima’s son is going to be jealous.

    As for Rev Thorn, actually this might be good for the show. We haven’t had a Christian character in this show before though so we have to see how the character is played.

    What about Rev Magee, wasn’t he a Christian?

    Well he was always played as being burned out. In fact I got the sense that he might have even been an atheist but felt it was too late in life to make a career change so he just went through the motions.

    But depending upon how Rev. Thorn is played we might have an Anglican Reverend who actually still believes in Christianity (hey, it could happen). That would be a refreshing change even though Rev Magee might more accurately reflect the state of the Anglican church these days.

    I am sure that Rev Thorn is going to be very jealous of Amaar though because Islam is on the rise at the same time Christianity is on the decline. But it will be interesting seeing him try to fight both the Muslims and the secular people of the town.

  88. Kevin

    With Thorn it is all a matter of viewpoint.

    We may think it is wrong that he wants the Muslims out of his church but for him, I am sure he sees the whole situation as absurd.

    Here he is on a mission to savage a failing church and he finds out that the loser Reverend who was part of the church failing (not the whole reason of course because there’s larger societal factors at work here McGee was certainly systematic of these larger factors) has let the church be overrun by Muslims.

    Now it looks like at the end of the first episode his remaining parishioners forces him to yield in the effort to remove them, but surely we can see it from his perspective.

  89. Kevin

    I agree with those who say that “a noisy student reporter” only works in a storyline where there’s something going on to be noisy about.

    Like if they were really a bunch of terrorists then yeah, it could work with the Muslims always having to be one step ahead of Zack.

    With nothing to be noisy about, it just makes Zack annoying, and not in a good way annoying.

  90. Kevin

    I hope Layla KICKS ZACK’S ASS.

    Verbally, I mean. Just like she did Tree!

  91. Kevin

    Maybe Zack can “overhear” Sarah and Fatima “plotting to assassinate the Mayor”.

    But in reality they are planning a birthday party for her.

    Sarah: She has been my friend since childhood and I have always wanted to give her a special birthday party and it never works out.

    Zack sneaks in.

    Fatima: Well I have never cared for that woman myself.

    Sarah: Please as a fellow Muslim do it for me.

    Fatima: Well, I do have my special recipe that I can cook up for her.

    Sarah: Good she deserves it. It will be a hit.

    Fatima: It will be a hit then. We will give the mayor what you think she deserves.

    Sarah: She will be knocked dead. She will never see it coming.

  92. Kevin

    Maybe Layla can give Zach somehow a “false story”. I know this plot line was kind of already done with the episode where Rayyan and JJ told Fred false rules of Islam and Fred believed them, but perhaps if the story is well written it won’t seem like the same thing. Hey, Three’s Company was able to do a whole series using this device.

    Layla needs to do it in a way where she doesn’t actually say these things but instead says it in way vague enough for Zacks prejudices (that he really does have except thinking himself as a broad liberal minded person) to feel in the blanks.

    I don’t know perhaps her saying that if she doesn’t get home before curfew her “dad will kill her” and Zack actually thinks Baber would literally do that to her.

    Or perhaps she could like say that if she doesn’t get home soon “her dad will kill her”. The next day she isn’t at school. Zack goes to her house but Baber wouldn’t let her see him because “she is down with the flu (yeah right Zack thinks) but what’s that hole that Baber is digging in his backyard? And all the other Muslims come to visit Baber’s house (Rayyan because in reality Layla is sick. Yasir comes over to hell Baber with whatever he is really digging the hole in the back yard for. Etc) Are they in on it too?

  93. Kevin

    Yasir comes over to help Baber. Heck I have a daughter so I can understand the state Baber must be in right now. Helping with his backyard project is the least I can do at this time.

    Zack: You Muslims stick together regardless right?

    Yasir: Yes, and of course we all feel bad about Layla.

  94. Kevin

    Zack: This is the biggest story in my life. You Killed your own Daughter and the rest of you Muslims are helping him cover it up.

    Layla walks in: What are you talking about?

    Zack, Layla.. you are alive???

    Layla, What? I was sick… but I am feeling better now. My Dad told you that when you came over…

    Zack…But…the hole.. and the box and the.. the..

    Fred: Those Muslims will trick you every time. Just when you think you have them figured out they will do something tricky like Not killing their daughters.

    Zack… I have to stop the newspaper from being printed (he rushes out the door as everyone at the diner are laughing at him).

  95. Kevin

    Layla: Zack Whitman…What a Jerk. More like Zack Witless.

    Jane: But he is cute though, surely you noticed.

    Layla: No.

    Jane: Come on..

    Layla: Maybe a little but that’s not the point. The point is he is a prejudged jerk. Oh, he thinks he isn’t. He thinks he is so free minded. At least Fred Tupper is open about what he is, unlike Zack. I would rather suffer a thousand Fred Tupper’s rather than one Zack Whitman…

    Jane: But Fred is old, and Zack is cute.

    Layla: You honestly didn’t understand a word I said did you Jane?

    Jane: What? Zack is cute… Surely you noticed that.

    Layla: Yeah, I did a little.

  96. Kevin

    Zack: He is a picture of me at my old school with my black friend. See the picture. It’s true he’s black.

    Layla: Uh, yeah, I see…

    Zack: I also had some Asian friends there. It was almost like I was one of them. They really let me in to their community.

    Layla: Uh…

  97. Kevin

    Zack: Maybe you can invite me to your Mosque some time. Layla.

    Layla: Uh, I don’t think so…

    Zack: Why?

    Layla: You would be bored. There’s all this talk in Arabic and stuff, trust me.

    Zack: I wouldn’t mind. I would find it fascinating

    Layla:(softly under her breath) You would.

    Zack: What.

    Layla: Oh, nothing it is just that non-muslims aren’t allowed in the Mosque while we are praying. Can’t be within 100 feet. It’s a rule. Yeah, that’s it. Sorry.

    Zack: Oh, that’s not what I read on wikipedia.

    Layla: Well each Mosque has different rules and that’s ours. We have a very strict Imam.

    Zack: Oh…

  98. Steve

    Although most mosques prohibit non-Muslims from entering, many mosques in Muslim-minority countries allow outsiders in as a show of openness. The Masjid al-Haram in Makkah has the strictest prohibition against non-Muslims entering since the entire city of Makkah is off-limits to non-Muslims. The ban on non-Muslims being allowed into the Masjid al-Haram is mentioned in the Qur’an:

    O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise. (9:28, Yusuf Ali)
    Many mosques have extended that prohibition to other mosques in Saudi Arabia and the Arab world, particularly to the Masjid al-Nabawi in Medina [7]. The Hassan II Mosque remains the only mosque in Morocco open to non-Muslims [8].

  99. Kevin

    I know Steve.

    I am having Layla saying this because she really doesn’t want to show Zack around.

    Because of course we all know that Amaar isn’t “strict” but instead some might call him a Coca Cola Muslim.

    I don’t think it is permitted to attend the actual prayer service but of course I would expect that Amaar would permit an interested observer at least a tour. After all remember I believe it was the second episode of the series.

    So, no she is just trying to find any excuse because this Zack guy is a real jerk.

    ===

    Amaar: Oh, Hi Layla I see you have a new friend, would you like to introduce us.

    Layla: He’s not my frie.. I mean his name is Zack Whitles..man. He just moved here. Zack this is Amaar my Imam

    Zack: As-Salāmu `Alaykum That’s okay for me to say, right? I mean no disrespect.

    Amaar: No that’s fine. `Alaykum As-Salaam.

    Zack: Layla was just explaining to me how non-muslims aren’t allowed into the Mosque, which is too bad because I wanted to do a story…

    Amaar: A story? Are you some kind of reporter.

    Zack: Yes, I was head reporter for my school newspaper back in my old school and now I just got on the newspaper here and I was hoping to do a story about influential Muslims in Mercy and of course who’s a more influential Muslim in Mercy than the spiritual leader of the Muslim community in Mercy…

    Layla: Sarah Hamoudi… Rayyan Hamoundi…

    Ammar (flattered): Well I am pretty busy being the spiritual leader of the Mercy Muslim community but I am sure I can make some time for a up and coming member of the journalism profession. Actually I have some time right now if you like.

    Zack: Got to go, journalism calls…

    Layla: Whatever…

    • Carol

      This is really late, but want to correct one misconception. Many mosques allow non-Muslims to attend prayers. Have attended prayers in several mosques in two countries (not Saudi Arabia). And I am not a Muslim.

  100. Kevin

    Oh, I made a mistake.

    Layla wouldn’t say 100 feet. It’s a Canadian show.

    Change that to 100 metres.

  101. Steve

    Nahida, interesting clip you gave.

    I really have so many directions to go with it.

    One, obviously the boy in the video isn’t interested in “just being friends”. Now I am not saying that he is so crude that he is only thinking about getting laid. But the way he looked at her isn’t how he would like look at a boy he wanted to be friends with.

    Well, the show is set in France so perhaps I should take it back. But the point is if he looked at a boy the way he looked at her obviously his interest there would be more than “just wanting to be friends”.

    So it kind of supports the whole “Harry met Sally” men and women can’t be friends theory.

    I wonder if the boy gets beheaded at the end of the video.

  102. Steve

    At the end of the movie I mean.

    Whatever movie that clip is from.

    Another issue is that of the Hijab.

    You probably posted the clip in part as a count to this clip that AJ posted.

    Now, I am an American. And I believe that as long as the clothing is decent the government shouldn’t be in the business of telling people what they can and can not wear. If the clothing is coving the whole face that could be a different matter in situations where identity is important but there I would be as much against like a ski mask as I would a burka. There needs to be some room for practicality.

    But in France I guess they have bans on the Hijab and while I won’t say it is wrong that they have such bans because that would be telling another country what to do, I will go as far as to say I would never ever support a ban here.

    That said, for many of us here in the west we do see Hijab as a sign of oppression. I do believe that what the girl says in the video is true. For many women it is a choice they choose for themselves as a way to feel connected to their faith. I think it would be easier for the rest of us if there was a male counterpart to the Hijab and then we would feel it isn’t something that women are solely burdened with. But again, in the end it’s not up to others to tell Muslims how to express their faith so yeah, I don’t condemn the wearing of the Hijab.

    In general I feels sorry for Muslims living in France. Heck I feel sorry for anyone living in France because the French are one of the most degenerate people out there. And it would hard for anyone of principle to have to live among them.

    The smell alone…

  103. Steve

    A question about the video Nahida.

    When the Muslim girl falls the good French boy helps her up. But in doing so, he touches her.

    And also when he helps her back on with her the Hijab in doing so he touches her hair.

    So, didn’t he do something offensive here according to Islam?

  104. Steve

    You probably posted the clip in part as a counter to this clip that AJ posted.

  105. Steve

    One thing to understand is that no one pushed her. She tripped on a rock.

    Yes, they were mean to laugh at her misfortune and it wasn’t nice what they said before she tripped but they didn’t push her.

    Still they were jerks and they shouldn’t have been so mean but there’s of course a lot of societal reasons for them to be so upset. It is still wrong to take out their grips as legitimate as they may be on a single individual. That just makes the situation worse.

    And let me make another observation. Zarka said the other women didn’t like what the boys were saying to them. Now I know this is controversial and I don’t want it to be taken too much out of the specific situation they were showing there but it didn’t seem to me they were bothered. In fact they seemed to enjoy the banter. Now obviously Zarka would be upset if she was treated this way but for the other French girls it seems like they were enjoying it. Perhaps that is just an act they put up but I am not sure Zarka is right about this. It could just show one of the cultural divide between mainstream French culture (for the lack of a better term) and Muslim culture. After all especially that girl with the throng underware, Would she really dress like that if she didn’t enjoy such attention?

    Now I know where you can go with that comment so please don’t. I know they didn’t want to be raped and the boys didn’t rape them. What happened was that the boys gave them a crude remark and they returned it with a putdown. That’s what I am saying they enjoyed. That is what I am saying they dressed for.

  106. Nahida

    “I wonder if the boy gets beheaded at the end of the video.”

    For the love of God, Steve!

    The movie is called Paris, Je t’Aime and it is composed of a collection of shorts displaying different kinds of love–between mother and child, for a city, among supernatural beings, of a way of life, etc. That was one of them. What type of love is displayed here is up to interpretation, as it is with the other shorts. But since it is about love–and not crushes–I doubt the main focus of the short here is supposed to be a romantic type of interest though it happens to exist within it.

    “So, didn’t he do something offensive here according to Islam?”

    If Francois were Muslim, he would have. But he wasn’t Muslim and unfamiliar with Islam, and it’s excusable for him to make such an error the first time. If you’re wondering why Zarka didn’t correct him, she shouldn’t have and I’m glad she didn’t. She might mention casually later in a conversation when further explaining the hi’jab how it implies that the woman prefers a “touch barrier,” but to have said it just then as he helped her would be rude and uncalled for.

    And it’s the rejection (some of them) enjoyed. They weren’t dressed trashy–they were dressed nice (some of them even classy) probably because it makes them feel good when they look good. It’s for themselves and not for men. Or it may even be for other women–not in a sexual way, but women do unfortunately categorize each other on a hierarchy based on appearance. It can be an art form–fashion isn’t to appeal to men but to appeal to women. Of course, the girl in the thong underwear is probably just an example of how brainwashed and insecure women have become.

  107. Steve

    I don’t know it seemed that the women liked the whole banter thing and liked that they were noticed. It’s a French thing though. It wouldn’t be appropriate in Muslim culture or even American culture.

    The boys surely knew the response they would get so it just seems to be an interaction that has developed in French culture.

    Of course if it went past there and the boys continued to harass them or if they got physical and blocked their way, that obviously they wouldn’t like. That would step outside the unwritten rules of this social interchange. But that’s not what happened of course.

    It shows that in different societies people feel differently about things. That’s what makes “multiculturalism” so difficult. But in this case it seems that although the boys were insensitive to her Zarka failing they still were respectful enough to her not to include her in their “French” game. Her clothes told them that she wasn’t part of the same culture that the other women were a part of and therefore would not enjoy it like they did.

  108. Steve

    Zarka assumed the other girls didn’t like what the boys were saying because SHE wouldn’t like such stuff said to her.

    Isn’t that a form of intolerance itself?

    French girls seem to like it. Now we Americans can find such behavior trashy, but to the French it just seems to be one of the norms of male female interaction.

    SO, who are us to say it’s wrong for the girls to like such an interaction? Yeah, in our culture we wouldn’t like it, but in theirs they find it fun and flattering.

    I have always thought that the Christian saying “do un to others as you would like done un to you” a statement that was faulty. It is faulty because people ARE DIFFERENT. Some people like things that others don’t. Just because you may or may not like to be treated a certain way it doesn’t mean everyone feels the same way.

  109. Steve

    Another interesting thing about the video, when the two men insulted Zarka for wearing an hi’jab it wasn’t because she was Muslim that they didn’t like her wearing it. It was because they saw it as “not being French”.

    I am not saying they were right to be mean to her but I am saying that it wasn’t because they saw the hi’jab as being oppressive. It was just that they saw it as a sign that she was saying that she wasn’t going to blend into the culture of France.

    And, that is precisely what the hi’jab means. Or at least the effect it has. Now I am not saying she should meld into French society totally. Because even under a “melting pot” society as America should be we allow for (or I should say used to allow for) religious symbols.

    But although I don’t agree with how they expressed their disfavor I can understand why they might feel a little upset. It’s not easy seeing your society fade away and another society come up in its place.

    Of course I believe an element of the video was how it showed how “French Culture” deserves to be replaced given how trashy it is.

    But then again, there I go condemning a society because I feel it’s trashy.

    There’s a lot of stuff going on in that video for sure.

  110. Nahida

    “Zarka assumed the other girls didn’t like what the boys were saying because SHE wouldn’t like such stuff said to her.

    “Isn’t that a form of intolerance itself?”

    Men objectifying women is cross cultural. It’s not intolerance. It’s the truth. If these women really did like it (which I doubt–they seemed a lot more pissed off) it’s because they’re pathetic. There are such things as universal values. And while the boys didn’t continue to harass them, it’s this type of behavior that implants the possibility of allowance into people’s heads.

    “Her clothes told them that she wasn’t part of the same culture that the other women were a part of and therefore would not enjoy it like they did.”

    I don’t think they skipped hitting on her because they knew because of her clothes that she wouldn’t enjoy it. I think it’s because they knew from her clothes that she wasn’t easy.

    I don’t think they truly believed the other girls were easy either, but all they seemed to be thinking about was getting laid, and it shows that they might have had an ounce of hope that one of the girls would actually stop. With Zarka, however, it was out of question, so they hadn’t bothered.

    It may also be that they didn’t even find her attractive–she has a beautiful face, but that’s not how they’re used to judging women (“She didn’t have tits anyway.”–in reference to the Thai woman) and they couldn’t see Zarka’s figure because of the way it was deliberately hidden.

    If they had really been aware of culture and that was what prevented them from including Zarka in their obscene activities (don’t they have lives?!) they wouldn’t have hit on the Thai woman either. If they believed she was completely French because of the way she dressed as opposed to being an Asian woman (where respect is extremely important and that type of behavior is not okay) they wouldn’t have used her race to hit on her.

  111. Steve

    Another interesting thing about the video is that each woman who walked by was of a different racial group. I am not sure quite what the point was there. Except for the fact that Paris is becoming very multiracial.

    All the other women seemed to have integrated into the French social dynamics. Perhaps they were born in France. Perhaps they were immigrants. Not sure but still they knew the social dynamic and freely interacted in it.

    Not Zarka though. And I am not saying she should. It’s probably to her credit she doesn’t though that statement probably depends upon how one feels about French society.

    But say I wasn’t so against French society. Granted it was wrong for those men to insult Zarka for wearing the hi’jab and it was wrong for the boys to laugh at Zarka’s misfortune in tripping (check the video she did trip, wasn’t pushed). Yeah, that whole thing was wrong.

    But her grandfather said that he hoped than when she became a reporter France would be “her France”. Well, apart from from being mean to her, what was wrong with “today’s France”as opposed to “her France”?

    Yeah, I could spend hours answering that question but in the end it would be my opinion. What if I liked that France? Wouldn’t it bother me that someone was changing the France I loved into something else? What if I loved the banter that French males and females engaged in. Then shouldn’t I be concerned and upset at Zarka’s desire (or at least her grandfather’s desire) to change all of it.

    I guess it is a matter of perspective. Hey, I am more supportive than you might realize of Zarka’s vision for the world. Sure I don’t want to see all the women in hi’jab but a few less women with thong underwear showing, I would see as a good thing.

  112. Nahida

    “And while the boys didn’t continue to harass them, it’s this type of behavior that implants the possibility of allowance into people’s heads.”

    I realized this was vague so let me explain. People think women enjoy this, and so by allowing themselves to behave this way they move themselves to the idea that if anything like physical harassment happens, it’s because the women were asking for it. This has gone so far that oftentimes a victim of rape will let the crime go unreported because she believes it was her fault. This causes so much damage–both physical and psychological. It’s messed up beyond belief, and behavior such as that displayed in the short which makes way for actual actions should not be tolerated.

  113. Nahida

    I don’t see why you keep specifying that she tripped and wasn’t pushed. No one is saying she was pushed…

  114. Nahida

    And I believed that by saying she wanted to write about “her France” she meant “France through her eyes,” as a Muslim woman living in such a country, not “France the way it should be.”

  115. Steve

    Nahida do you really think the boys thought they would get a different response than they actually did?

    To me it just seems “part of the game”.

    If their goal was really “to get laid with these girls” they would have acted differently.

    It was just banter. Not something we are used to in the US but obviously something that has grown up in their society and as such something that each person in the interchange knew what to expect and how to play their “role”.

    Now why such an interchange has developed I guess would take some kind of physcological analysis. For me it is easy to see what the women get out of it. They get to be noticed and then they get to insult the person noticing them. Now why would the male do this knowing he is going to be insulted? Well I guess he can be boisterous without the risk of real rejection.

    What do I mean “real rejection” since the guy’s advances are rejected? But since the rejection is an expected part of the interchange then the boy knows that it was the only thing that could happen and the rejection doesn’t seem so personal.

    It’s a real complex social phenomena. And may even have some positive attributes.

  116. Steve

    I don’t see why you keep specifying that she tripped and wasn’t pushed. No one is saying she was pushed…

    I just thought it was important to emphasize that while the people were mean to laugh at her misfortune they weren’t the cause of it.

  117. Nahida

    I didn’t say I thought they’d get a different response. I said I bet they were hoping for it, even if they knew it wouldn’t happen.

  118. Steve

    Look I am offended at the “blame the victim” in rape dynamic that seemed to have been in so many societies all over the world in human history.

    Does this banter support that or help fight it? It is hard for us outsiders to say.

    You say, ” it’s this type of behavior that implants the possibility of allowance into people’s heads.”

    Can we really say that? Is there any indication of that? One of the benefits of this banter is that the female is allowed to reassert her actual authority by the put down.

    We don’t know what the reaction of the other French people would be if the boys “had stepped across the line”. It could be that their would be an immediate negative response to any male who would.

    Obviously this isn’t something I recommend for American society because we aren’t “on the same script” as they are and don’t understand all the “unstated but expected” rules of the interchange. But for the French it could work well.

  119. Nahida

    The only positive attribute this could have is a temporary self esteem boost.

    In the long run there are more negative outcomes than positive ones.

  120. Nahida

    “Can we really say that? Is there any indication of that? One of the benefits of this banter is that the female is allowed to reassert her actual authority by the put down.”

    “People think women enjoy this, and so by allowing themselves to behave this way they move themselves to the idea that if anything like physical harassment happens, it’s because the women were asking for it. ”

    That’s where I drew the connection remember?

  121. Steve

    “I didn’t say I thought they’d get a different response. I said I bet they were hoping for it, even if they knew it wouldn’t happen.”

    Well you can’t blame a guy for hoping…

    But seriously the point is growing up in that culture THEY KNEW the response they would get. They knew the outcome of such an interchange would not be “getting laid” but instead would be an insult. That was the expected result in their society of such an interchange.

    So, the interchange must serve a different purpose. And not necessarily a negative one.

  122. Nahida

    Yeah, a temporary self esteem boost.

    Which I still believe is pathetic.

  123. Steve

    It seems that in the end it let’s men know that it’s the woman in control.

    How is that bad?

  124. Nahida

    It gets bad when they stop listening.

  125. Steve

    You may think it’s pathetic, heck, even I might think it’s pathetic.

    But isn’t that just like someone coming to the conclusion that the hi’jab is oppressive.

    If I wore it I might find it oppressive. Well I am a male so it would be silly for me to wear it from that aspect as well.

    But aside from the gender part I would find wearing a male version of the hi’jab (if one existed) as being oppressive.

    And, yeah, I would be offended at the boys. But that is how I would feel.

    But that’s because of how I was raised and the culture I was raised in.

    How can I say that for someone else they might feel differently?

  126. Nahida

    The thing is, I don’t believe the girls felt differently.

    If they did, I still think it’s pathetic. But I wouldn’t stop them. And I don’t think it’s the same as coming to the conclusion that the hi’jab is oppressive. Believing something is pathetic is an opinion you put on yourself. Believing it’s oppressive… People will go out of their way to prevent it from being practiced. You can choose to be pathetic, but you can’t choose to be oppressed. That’s something you’re forced to be… hence the word “oppressed.”

  127. Steve

    “People think women enjoy this, and so by allowing themselves to behave this way they move themselves to the idea that if anything like physical harassment happens, it’s because the women were asking for it. ”

    But the “rules” of the interchange demands that there’s no physical harassment. In the end of the “game” the male is put in his place.

    But in the end, just with the question of a female wearing a hi’jab the question is HOW SHE REALLY FEELS about it. And that isn’t such an easy question given the role culture plays on the perception on how we think we feel about something.

    You said ” the girl in the thong underwear is probably just an example of how brainwashed and insecure women have become.” Basically you are saying that she thinks she enjoys wearing thong underwear because her society tells her that she is supposed to enjoy it but deep down she really doesn’t. Can the same thing be said for a woman who wears a hi’jab? She might think that she is wearing it out of her own free will and not as a result of oppression but she only feels that way because her society “brainwashed her” to feel that way.

    A complex issue indeed and I am not saying there’s really a clear answer on it. For me and my country I would never ban the hi’jab. I can see why people might be bothered by it but that is really their problem and something they shouldn’t take out on individuals.

  128. Nahida

    Steve, I can assure you that I have come close to punching many over righteous Muslim men in the face because they insisted that only a true Muslim woman wears a hi’jab. Any Muslim woman who wear a hi’jab to please a man is as oppressed as a woman who wears a thong to please a man. The harm only comes when the man believes that this is being done for him. And the woman in the thong–unless all her other underwear was being washed and she had nothing else to wear (if you noticed, even the first time I had conditional words [probably]–may have been wearing it just to please men.

    The point is that women should be pleasing themselves, not behaving as a slave to men.

  129. Nahida

    “Any Muslim woman who wear a hi’jab to please a man is as oppressed as a woman who wears a thong to please a man.”

    The exception of course (there always is one) is if she’s doing it for a particular man and is happy being oppressed by love.

    We’re all a slave of love, and all is fair in love (and war.)

  130. Nahida

    A Muslim woman, though, is to wear the hi’jab only for God.

    And any woman may refuse to wear a thong even for her husband.

  131. Steve

    It really would be easier for some of us at least if there was a male equivalent to the hi’jab. It would lessen the feel of this being “oppressive”.

    But again, I realize that Islam doesn’t exist to please its critics.

    And still there would be people who would be offended at the hi’jab for being “foreign”.

    One good purpose of a “hi’jab” in Western society it does tell people that one isn’t part of the decadence around them. When you call us infidels decadent what can I say. You really do have us pegged there.

    I do commend anyone be it a strong Christian principled teen or a Muslim teen for standing up and being different by being decent in an increasingly decadent world.

  132. Nahida

    The word hi’jab doesn’t really refer to the headscarf, though that’s how it’s used. It refers to modest clothing. That means if a woman is in a headscarf but is wearing a miniskirt… that’s not hi’jab.

    Men and women are equal but different. I honestly don’t think men (though they also have awra they are supposed to cover) really need something like a hi’jab. For a man attracting a woman isn’t about physical appearances (except maybe height.) The reasons may be just as materialistic (like money) but appearance isn’t the main factor (I don’t mean the word “appearance” to include hygiene either.) While the hi’jab can protect women from being judged on materialism (or be used wrongly against them if a man controls it) men have no such protection. I don’t believe Islam is oppressive to anyone, but I find it amusing that outsiders believe it is oppressive to women and not men. After all, once they’re married, all the money belongs to the woman…

  133. Steve

    The thing with hi’jab and it really is the case when the covering covers the whole face it that it can give the feel of the female “muting” her own personality.

    The face (and I am now going beyond the headscarf now) gives off so many subtle signals so important to interaction.

    And I think another thing that some may not like about “hi’jab” is that they might feel it puts the responsibility of how a man responses to a female upon the female instead of the male.

    Please let me know if that statement isn’t clear. And I will try to explain further what I mean. But they see it as women purposely hiding their own attractiveness (at least somewhat) instead of demanding that men control themselves when they see a woman’s attractiveness.

  134. Nahida

    The face (and I am now going beyond the headscarf now) gives off so many subtle signals so important to interaction.

    You’re now talking about niqāb, which I am against. When a woman covers her face, and especially her eyes, her identity is taken away, objectifying her all over again. There is a hadith that states women should cover everything but their faces and hands. These two things are left exempt for a reason, and it infuriates me that Eastern Muslim cultures have overlooked it. The scantily dressed woman is judged to be a mere tool to satisfy a man’s desires, and the woman dressed in niqāb is overlooked entirely. She disappears. She’s a lump of fabric. The human face, recognized immediately by infants, biologically engraved into the brains of both men and women, is how one human being recognizes another as a human being.

    And I think another thing that some may not like about “hi’jab” is that they might feel it puts the responsibility of how a man responses to a female upon the female instead of the male.

    Women are hiding their physical attractiveness when they cover themselves, not any other type. As for controlling themselves–the hijab does not eliminate the need for a man to control himself. He must still lower his eyes before a woman once they fall upon hers.

  135. Steve

    It doesn’t entirely eliminate the need, but it does put the “blame” for a woman’s physical attractiveness (or I should say the effects of it) on the woman’s shoulders.

  136. Steve

    And I believed that by saying she wanted to write about “her France” she meant “France through her eyes,” as a Muslim woman living in such a country, not “France the way it should be…”

    I think she meant “France the way it should be.”

    Should be according to Muslims that is.

    Which I guess is just natural. We all wish the society we lived in was more structured to our ways of thinking.

    The problem is of course each of us have a different concept of what “the way it should be” should be.

  137. Steve

    I know the people who were mean to her were portrayed as bad, and indeed they were wrong in being mean to her.

    But looking at it from their perspective they are seeing the country they love and grew up in slowly being taken away from them.

    To us we can look at the subject from a distance and say “good, it is being replaced by something better”. But being displaced isn’t a good feeling. Again, it just makes the situation worse by behaving as they did because of course it’s not directly Zarka’s fault and so it’s not like being mean to her helps anything. It just creates even more anger.

    But it’s a real hopeless situation for these guys. They have nowhere to go. And I really don’t have any idea what they can do about the situation. Perhaps tougher immigration laws but that’s about it. If they can’t get their leaders to listen to them then they face a future of being a foreigner in their own land.

  138. Nahida

    It doesn’t entirely eliminate the need, but it does put the “blame” for a woman’s physical attractiveness (or I should say the effects of it) on the woman’s shoulders.

    No it doesn’t. Because it isn’t “blame.” And no straight minded Muslim would see it that way–plastic surgery being frowned upon in Islam is an example of how strictly such things are to be appreciated as God’s work (not hers.) The woman doesn’t get credit for her looks for it to be “blame.”

  139. Nahida

    But looking at it from their perspective they are seeing the country they love and grew up in slowly being taken away from them.

    Steve, bless your heart, I sincerely doubt that was what they were thinking of when it happened.

  140. Nahida

    Perhaps tougher immigration laws but that’s about it. If they can’t get their leaders to listen to them then they face a future of being a foreigner in their own land.

    I’d like to pointedly say something.

    I don’t know what it’s like in France (particularly Paris) as far as immigration is concerned–I’ve only been there once. From what I picked up Paris is very diverse but other, smaller cities seem to have very few immigrants.

    But in the U.S. if anyone feels there are problems (obviously I see the financial ones, but anyone who’s voiced other concerns seems racist and ignorant to me–like Pat Buchanan, who can’t spell the word “committee,”) we deserve what we’re getting.

    http://www.koco.com/education/20973392/detail.html

    The numbers are awful. While 92% of immigrants who take this test pass, only 3% of Oklahoma high school students were able to pass it. (And we all know how the state has dealt with immigration…)

    If and when I have children, while they will be American, I’m pulling them out of public school after the 5th grade. And I’d homeschool them myself but I may not have the time or be able to provide the environment of influencing numbers. They’ll study for two years in the Middle East, and I’m hoping that way I’d be able to instill in them the values of both cultures, and they’ll get the best of both. After that it’s two years (or at least one) in Europe before returning here for university. Inshallaah.

    There’s no way I’m putting them into this “educational” system. There’s something seriously wrong with it.

  141. Steve

    http://www.spellingsociety.org/journals/j29/art.php

    Some of the early reviewers of the book were relieved to hear that bad spelling does not necessarily indicate low intelligence. Someone can be intelligent without being a good speller.

  142. Nahida

    I meant he couldn’t spell “conference.”*

    And I wasn’t calling him that because he couldn’t spell. I pointed out he couldn’t spell because it’s ironic, since the conference had been among “English only” supporters. And the misspelled word was on a banner. On a banner. Which everyone missed. At an “English only” conference.

    What makes it even better is that he’d made a habit of ridiculing Judge Sotomayor’s struggle to learn English. He should pick up some of those chidren’s classics he so readily mocked her for studying over the summer when she was in college.

    “English only” is ridiculous. While it’s important that we can all understand each other, no one should put a limit on language. Ever. But how typical is it for this country to be against anything that requires them to exercise their brains… Learning new languages is almost enlightening. Our schools should be required to teach English and two more.

  143. Steve

    It’s not “English Only”.

    It’s English FIRST.

    As in it should be our primary language.

    Everyone in America should know English.

    And it should be the language we conduct government business in.

    Countries that don’t have a primary language have lots of problems.

    You say that we should practice more than one language. I say which one? I mean besides English (I guess I am assuming you are going to have English be one of those languages.)

    In California you are going to say probably Spanish, but in other areas of the country you have populations coming in that speak only Russian.

    So, what do we do about that?

  144. Nahida

    It’s still hilarious.

    And I don’t care which ones. Despite the fact that I live in California, Spanish isn’t one of the languages I know. When I said the schools should be required to teach at least two languages [I really meant kids should be required to learn at least two (other than English)] I thought it was clear that what I was prioritizing had nothing to do directly with the commercial world. They can learn a dead language like Latin for all I care–it would still help in brain development and in a lot of the other languages with Latin influence.

    I don’t care what the other two are.

  145. Nahida

    Basically, the students should be free to choose whatever two they wish to learn on top of English. The only thing the schools will do is require the number and provide the selection from which the students can choose.

  146. Steve

    Despite the fact that I live in California, Spanish isn’t one of the languages I know.

    Oh, but YOU SHOULD know Spanish. Why don’t you know the primary language of your state?

    I guess that makes you as hateful and intolerant as the rest of us then.

  147. Nahida

    I said I don’t care what the other two are.

    You sound desperate.

  148. kathy

    uhmm yea you do sound desperate she said english and two more languages not what they had to be

    what other two languages do you know nahida? just curious

  149. Steve

    Of course I am desperate.

    These are desperate times.

    And as you might have heard at your Mosque things are going to get very bad in the next few weeks.

    It is ironic that the new season of Little Mosque is going to start about the same time.

  150. Steve

    Kathy, you missed my point.

    Sure knowing another language is a good thing, like knowing algebra is a good thing.

    BUT, some want to say that one MUST know another language.

    Okay, then, what language must one know besides English. Nahida says it doesn’t matter. But of course it does.

    But the problem is that there isn’t only one language out there competing. There are many languages. So, either to be really true to this we must all spend all our waking hours learning hundreds of languages, or just agree among ourselves as a culture that while one may speak whatever language they want around their friends and family, they should be EXPECTED to know English and English should be the language used in all official transactions and government business.

    50 or 60 years ago that would have been an obvious statement, and to many even today they might thing that yeah, duh, of course. But that’s not the case in many communities and that is growing.

    Using Nahida’s mindset indeed it would be easy to to turn around and condemn her for her hypocrisy for not knowning Spanish despite living in California. But even in California, while Spanish comes in an obvious second in languages to learn still there would be those out there who would claim even that is not enough. Korean, Russian, there are many other languages out there that are all competing.

    And that makes for lots of friction. When one comes to America, while of course it is nice to know another language, all they should be expected to know to operate within our society is English. But increasing that’s not the case.

    So, okay, lets all learn Spanish. But once we do that then there will be another language “we have to learn” and another and another.

    Or we can all agree to conduct our daily affairs in one language. Heck, if we all agree that it would be Spanish, then perhaps I would agree and learn Spanish and then we will all operate under that as our common language. But of course it would make more sense at this point of our history to make the common language English.

    We should all believe in having a common language for our country. It is very important to have one.

    And that is all that these people are saying. We need to have a common language.

  151. Steve

    It used to be that immigrants WANTED their children to learn English and would even admonish their children for not speaking English.

    Every citizen of America should know English. People shouldn’t be living in this country who don’t know basic English comprehension.

    Some would go further and say that commerce shouldn’t be done in any other language. I certainly think that government business shouldn’t be done in any other language but I wouldn’t extend that to private business.

  152. Steve

    Nahida last time people in certain Mosques got a “heads-up” a whole week before it happened.

    Are you hearing things at your Mosque?

    Would you say if you were?

  153. Steve

    I have football tickets for next weekend. Should I use them?

  154. Nahida

    Kathy–French and Arabic

    Can someone please explain to me how I’m a hypocrite for not knowing Spanish when I clearly stated I don’t care what the other two languages are? I wouldn’t require students to learn certain languages depending on where they live! Steve are seriously that thick?

    And I’m not even going to bother with that…

  155. Nahida

    are you*

    My point of suggesting the language requirement was *not* primarily for commercial reasons.

  156. Nahida

    I’m required a certain number of math classes just to know them merely for balance even though I wouldn’t use them in my major.

    It’s like that.

    God save us.

  157. Steve

    You are being a hypocrite because SO many of your fellow citizens speak Spanish yet you are not making an effort to learn to communicate with them.

    You are an English Supremacist.

    No, I don’t believe that. But that’s where your kind of thinking leads. So I just jumped ahead for you.

    No one (or at least few people) have ever said that learning a language is not a good idea. That’s not what this is all about. And deep down I think you know that and was just using a straw man argument that I just reflected right back at you.

    And I am still waiting on an answer to whether I should go to the football stadium this weekend.

    What are they saying in the Mosques?

    Seriously. I am thinking about not going.

  158. Steve

    Here’s another question.

    Even though this show isn’t about terrorism would it be appropriate to show the season premiere in a week when the terrorist attacks are so prominent in the news?

  159. Nahida

    I like how Steve, after a few posts online, not only knows my mind set but can see how I feel “deep down.”

    Once again, the personal preference I just argued has nothing to do with communication! You didn’t “reflect” anything back at me. You’re just turning this into something it isn’t.

    No one (or at least few people) have ever said that learning a language is not a good idea. That’s not what this is all about. … And that is all that these people are saying. We need to have a common language.

    Yes, it is! That’s not *all* they’re saying! Maybe you haven’t *met* the people I have, but there are more who exist than you probably think.

    It is ironic that the new season of Little Mosque is going to start about the same time.

    That doesn’t mean anything. If I recall correctly, last year this show started the same time–after Ramadan. And if you’re really at the edge of your seat, I haven’t heard anything. You sound as ridiculous as the 9/11 conspirators who believe it was all the US government.

  160. Steve

    I just said it was ironic. Not that it was planned on the part of the CBC. Ironic doesn’t necessarily mean it was planned.

    So, they are timing this thing to be just after Ramadan?

    Is Saturday before or after Ramadan?

    From what I am getting it’s going to big though.

  161. Nahida

    I know what ironic means. I meant that you bringing up the timing in that context seemed to imply a connection.

    And Ramadan ended the 21st. They do it a week after.

  162. Steve

    So they are planning it for next weekend.

    Thanks.

    I will sell my football tickets and watch on television.

  163. Steve

    I will stay away from anywhere people gather just to be safe, but besides sporting arenas are there any other places I should be avoiding for the next few weeks?

    Subways for example?

  164. Nahida

    …I meant they were showing the next episode a week from the 21st….

    -rolls eyes-

  165. Greg

    IS this the season where Little Mosque on the Prairie goes of the deep end?

    For the last couple of years the show has done a good job at being somewhat balanced and not really political one way or the other.

    I believe this is the year it slips into propaganda. And given the ideology of the CBC it will be Leftist propaganda.

    We shall see. It has always been a concern that LMOTP was going to become some sort of political platform.

    http://www.tv-eh.com/2009/09/18/little-mosque-on-the-prairie-returns-sept-28-with-a-new-arrival/

    From a media release:

    MERCY, THERE’S SOMEONE NEW IN TOWN AS LITTLE MOSQUE ON THE PRAIRIE RETURNS FOR ITS FOURTH SEASON ON CBC TELEVISION, SEPT. 28

    This year, there’s a fresh arrival in Mercy. A new man of the cloth is about to take over Mercy Anglican and he’s not interested in treating Mercy’s resident Iman as an equal. The friendly relationship between the Muslims and the Christians will be put to the test as CBC Television’s internationally-acclaimed comedy series LITTLE MOSQUE ON THE PRAIRIE returns for its fourth season on Monday, September 28 at 8:30 p.m. It’s the same funny and heart-warming show it has always been …with a little more edge.

    Reverend William Thorne (Brandon Firla, Billable Hours) is an ambitious and manipulative minister from the big city who is surprised to find a bunch of Muslims as tenants in his church. Not the ecumenical type, Thorne prefers a church without an Imam and mosque in it. Conflict brewing, Imam Amaar (Zaib Shaikh) literally and figuratively dukes it out with the new Reverend and faces the greatest test of all – himself.

    “The new season of LITTLE MOSQUE ON THE PRAIRIE will come as quite a surprise for many of its fans,” said executive producer Mary Darling. The Imam and Reverend will face off in a battle for the hearts and minds of Mercy, and many of the townsfolk will be pulled into the fray. Who will be left standing? And will they be left standing with their dignity intact? “The goal of this season is in many ways to engage in the actual conversation happening in the world much like we did in our first season,” added Darling.

    The renewed conflict at the core of the new season brings out the best and worst in everyone. Rayyan (Sitara Hewitt) has to learn to live as an independent woman after being left at the altar. Sarah’s (Sheila McCarthy) loyalty to work and family is tested. Yasir (Carlo Rota) is torn between wife and mother. Baber (Manoj Sood) has to rise up to be the ultra-conservative Muslim he’s always thought himself to be. Rounding out the stellar cast are Debra McGrath as Mayor Popowicz, Arlene Duncan as café owner Fatima and Neil Crone as radio host Fred.

    LITTLE MOSQUE ON THE PRAIRIE is written by Jason Belleville, Dan Redican, Zarqa Nawaz, Greg Eckler, Sarah Glinski, Karen Hill, Sam Ruano, Paul Pogue and Claire Ross Dunn. Directors include Michael Kennedy, Brian Roberts, Jim Allodi and Steve Wright. Producers are Colin Brunton and Michael Snook. Zarqa Nawaz is consulting producer and series creator. Executive producers are Mary Darling, Clark Donnelly and Allan Magee. It is a WestWind Pictures/Little Mosque Productions Inc. in association with CBC Television.

  166. Steve

    Uh Oh!

    It looks like they are really going to politicize the show.

    Not that there wasn’t always such an undercurrent but it was at least for the last few seasons toned down and didn’t get too much in the way of story lines that actually were enjoyable to watch.

    I remember thinking at the end of this season, hey this is a pretty good shows with characters I like and interesting story lines.

    Perhaps I can start seeing this “like any other sitcom” instead of seeing it as some agenda driven work.

    But we all must get our defenses up and be ready to hyper analyze everything.

    One initial comment is the concept of a Mosque in a church is ridiculous. But I find that a more likely concept than a church in a Mosque. We are supposed to think negatively of Thorn for him being upset at Muslims being at his church. But if say things were reversed and it was really a Mosque and a few Christians had nowhere else to go would Amaar let them have their worship services there?

    I am afraid that they are going to go “anti-Christian” with the Thorn character. It will be a difficult balance for the character to be “adversarial” with the audience still having insight into his basically good nature. And of course there’s the need for it to be a comedy. It’s a difficult balance between the ability to have a character that can be “shown humorously” and one that is mocked.

    The difference so far can be seen in the way two of the actors have portrayed their characters. The guy who plays Baber I believe has a basic respect and understanding for his character and that shows through even when he is played for humor. For effective satire you must have a core. The guy who plays Fred, I honestly don’t think gets Fred. And that makes it hard for him to play the character satirically instead of mockingly.

    I have come to mostly like Baber but it is going to be interesting this year to see if they are going to turn him into a mocking figure. There was one episode last year where they did fail and go too far and he was turned into a more mocking instead of satirical character.

    It sounds like they are going to turn Baber away from his “hard core” Islam. Now you would think this would make me happy but I have never opposed Baber on his insistence on maintaining tradition instead of yielding to pop society. Yeah, his clothes kind of bothers me. He really needs to stop looking like “he just got off the boat” but beyond that I understand the need to not let things become “too lax”.

    I hope they don’t “colafy” Baber but it looks like that’s the direction they are going.

  167. Steve

    I find it interesting that they want to go back to Season One for their inspiration.

    I believe Season Two was their best season.

    Season One was where they had two episodes about homosexuality.

    Perhaps this year they will have an episode where Amaar’s doppelgänger Jayesh comes to town.

    Zaib Shaikh in a dual role.

  168. Steve

    The problem I have is that for anyone who knows this show some of the things mentioned in the below paragraph doesn’t make sense. And you would think the people writing the show knows the show since well after all they are the ones making it.

    Rayyan (Sitara Hewitt) has to learn to live as an independent woman after being left at the altar.

    That would imply that she wasn’t an independent woman before being left at the altar. Which of course we know isn’t true.

    Sarah’s (Sheila McCarthy) loyalty to work and family is tested.

    Well that one makes some sense though I would probably say work and religion because I can’t see how any decent person could do that job. And I mean of any faith that teaches ethics.

    Yasir (Carlo Rota) is torn between wife and mother.

    Well we know that Yasir’s mother never liked Sarah but this implies that she is going to be somewhat effective in creating a riff between them. If she hasn’t been successful in the past, how would she be now. Though perhaps if she moves in.

    Baber (Manoj Sood) has to rise up to be the ultra-conservative Muslim he’s always thought himself to be.

    Well, he has often caved when it comes to his daughter. Will he not this time? And will this be seen as a good thing or a bad thing?

  169. Greg

    Have the ratings gone down on this show?

    I think the last two seasons were much better than the first.

    The first was way too preachy.

    But through the second and third season it was really beginning so be about the characters and I was really starting to like it for itself. It turned into a show about a bunch of people who just happened to be Muslims rather than “the Muslim show”. They even turned Joe into a complex human being rather than “stupid hick”.

    But now it seems like they are going back to the hammer effect. They are going to hammer in their message and I believe that’s just going to drive away people.

    We will have to see. I was beginning to like this show as a show that found humor without making it “about sex” as so many comedies do. It was really a return to “family entertainment” (except for that one show about the conflict Fred and Fatima had).

    But if it becomes just a way to bash people and promote an agenda then that will drive away people.

    I am guessing that the Fourth Season will be the last season. Too bad.

  170. Steve

    I haven’t found the ratings for season two or three but the ratings of season one were in free-fall so it is ironic that they would look back to a season that was so poorly received for inspiration.

  171. Steve

    http://www.bbm.ca/en/nat03232009.pdf

    I believe this was the week of the Season 3 final.

    Corner Gas was the 14th most watched Canadian show. LMOTP didn’t make the top 30 and unfortunately I can’t find a more detailed list.

  172. Steve

    I found what I was looking for:

    http://www.mediaincanada.com/articles/mic/20090415/cbcratings.html

    Meanwhile, Little Mosque ended its season on a high note with 830,000 viewers on March 23, though the Regina-based sitcom is losing steam on the whole, averaging around 600,000 viewers for its third season. That’s down roughly 200,000 from last year.

    So they started of at about 1 million. Actually the first episode was two million but the 7 shows after the first episode in the first season was around 1 million.

    I can sure see why they believe the show needs to be more political (or to use their term “edgy”) and it could be that I won’t be able to get through this season.

    I could see the argument made that when people saw the show as political as they did for the first episode and even for the first season they turned in. I am not sure that’s a correct argument but it is an argument that the figures seem at least on the surface level to back up.

    I believe that many (but obviously not enough) people turn into this show for it’s gentle comedy. Most of the time you don’t have to worry about it going all sexual as you do with so many comedies.

    If this show becomes more harsh with it’s comedy it will alienate those viewers. Will it at the same time bring in a new audience, perhaps bring back some of the audience it lost. We will have to see.

    This may be a case where the charts seem to be telling you something that’s not really the case. But if Little Mosque is going “all in the family” it will be an interesting ride until I am thrown off at least.

  173. Steve

    Layla’s going to become a lesbian I bet.

    I always thought that was the direction they wanted to take the character.

  174. Greg

    The first season (the first eight episodes) the characters, especially the Anglo characters, were less complex, and more stereotyped.

    Basically the white people were either gay, or stupid hicks.

    So, they want to go back to that?

    It is obvious that they are going to portray Thorne as ruthless, perhaps even sexually corrupt. After all even his name. You think of Thorn Birds which was an anti-Christian miniseries from the 1980s I think about a man of the cloth having an illicit affair.

    And the press release talks about Thorne’s “dignity” isn’t going to be intact when it’s all done.

    It is quite possible that they are going to have Thorne’s character come in all high and mighty but at the end of the session reveal himself as a total sexual degenerate.

    Perhaps that will be how season Four ends.

    Thorne attempts to rape Rayyan. Amaar comes in and stops Thorne by decking him. A bleeding Thorne tells him that he wants him out of his church at once.

    Well, that’s what the BBC would do. But perhaps the CBC isn’t like that.

  175. Steve

    Here is some more information about the ratings for last year’s final.

    http://tvfeedsmyfamily.blogspot.com/2009/03/mosque-sophie-down-year-to-year.html

    How did Little Mosque on the Prairie and Sophie do year-to-year? With last night’s season finale numbers in (as overnight estimates, at least), here is a quick comparison.

    All that cliffhanger wedding promotion paid off as Little Mosque enjoyed by far its biggest audience of the season, 830,000 2+ viewers (all numbers BBM Canada). Sophie has no such luck Monday, bowing out with 294,000 viewers.

  176. Steve

    http://tvfeedsmyfamily.blogspot.com/2009/03/mosque-sophie-down-year-to-year.html

    …with LMOP averaging 586,000 viewers over 10 weeks in the fall,(of 2008 ie. Season 3).

  177. Steve

    …In the 12 Winter weeks of 2009, LMOP went up slightly to 621,000 (thanks partly to that big finale number)

  178. Steve

    You are so right about the BBC.

    After all look at what they did with “White Girl”.

    And that was shown in a week that was supposed to be about the “plight” of the the white lower classes in the UK.

    The message “the white lower classes deserve their fate and the only way out of their situation is to abandon British culture for something else…”.

    As for the CBC, perhaps they will turn Thorne into a pervert. That has been a way that Christianity has been attacked in the past and unfortunately in the imperfect world there were specific incidents they could point to that would tend to validate their claim. But I would say you would find such people in every profession but still that’s no excuse.

    So far they are just going with him being arrogant and self-aggrandizing but no doubt as the season goes on they will add to his negative characteristics.

    Yeah, Amaar punching Thorne at the end of the season while defending Rayyan’s honour would be quite a season cliffhanger.

    Perhaps have Fred as a witness to what happens. And then he will have to decide whether to tell the truth about what he saw but in doing so he would fear losing his audience so the first episode of season five would be Fred having Amaar’s fate in his hands.

  179. Greg

    Season Four Season Final.

    Fazil challenges Baber and rebukes Layla for her relationship with Jane.

    Baber stands up and at first we think that he is going to cave in to Fazil because he starts off with saying how disappointed he was when Layla told him she was a Lesbian but that he loves her regardless. Fazil walks out angrily.

    Later Rayyan is at the Mosque/church and Rev Thorne comes in. Starts talking “creepy” at her and starts to become physical with her by trying to pull off her hi’jab. But just then Amaar comes in with Fred, sees what happens and gives Thorne a punch right across his mouth (yeah, we have been waiting for Thorne to get his comings all season). Thorne yells, See I knew you ragheads were violent (yes along with everything else Thorne is a racist which of course comes as no surprise.) I want you brownies to get out of my church!

    And that is where season four ends. Will Thorne press charges against Amaar? Will he kick them out of the church like he wanted to at the beginning of the season. Will Fred side with Throne or tell the truth! Stay turned for season five.

  180. Steve

    You know if they didn’t have Jane be Layla’s lesbian partner they could have it where Thorne gets Jane pregnant.

    Then they could do a “White Girl” like storyline where Jane is rejected by her family for becoming pregnant but the Muslims be all accepting of her and they take her in and she decides to become a Muslim.

    And then perhaps that can be part of the whole Thorne Rayyan confrontation. She figures out that Thorne is the father of Jane’s baby and Thorne says well she can’t do anything about it because she found out under doctor – patient confidentiality and then he starts getting physical with Rayyan and that is where Amaar and Fred could come in.

  181. Greg

    Yeah, but the whole Lesbian storyline would be so good.

    I can just hear Baber say to Layla” Can you ever forgive me? I may not understand or agree with what you do but you will always be my daughter. And there is nothing in the world I love more than you.

    And I don’t care what Fazil or any one of you have to say about it!”

    Layla: “I love you too Dad”.

    Baber “You are still going to wear the hi’jab. right, Layla”? (I had to throw that in for comedic effect. After all it is still supposed to be a comedy).

  182. Steve

    I think they have left the Jane character open to go either direction, depending upon the direction they want to take Layla.

    Perhaps they don’t have to take Layla all the way to gayhood. Perhaps they could have Jane make a pass at her and then just have an episode where Layla questions her sexuality but at the end come to the conclusion that she is straight.

    Because isn’t the current politically correct line that there’s a little gayness in all of us?

    So yeah, I see Jane either becoming Layla’s lesbian partner or pregnant “White Girl” who is abused and rejected by her Christian family but who comes to find a home in Islam (like the whole BBC show except “White Girl” in that show wasn’t pregnant but was abused).

  183. Steve

    NEW SEASON BEGINS MONDAY!

    Will the “new edge” take the show over the edge?

    We shall see.

  184. Steve

    Today’s the Day!!!!

  185. Steve

    So, what did people think of it?

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