Season 2 – Episode 17 – Meet J.J.

Synopsis:  A childhood friend of Rayyan’s visits Mercy and Rayyan finds herself infatuated.

Yasir is thrilled when he gets a contract to build a pumping substation in Mercy. One snag: he has no idea how to build one. So he brings in outside help: J.J., an engineer and the son of an old friend. But with a chemistry between Rayyan and J.J. will his presence in Mercy lead to more than just a job? Meanwhile, Baber forces Layla build her resume by becoming a summer intern — a move he soon regrets.

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

Videos courtesy of mydien

What did you think of this episode? How does it compare to the previous episode?

Are there any other topics from the episode that you want to discuss?

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132 Comments

Filed under Season 2 - Episode 17

132 responses to “Season 2 – Episode 17 – Meet J.J.

  1. Lesia

    I almost fell out of my chair laughing when Yasir said, “If he doesn’t I’ll push him out of the tree.”

    This is a story line that they will have to be very careful with. Done poorly and they will ruin the show. Rayyan is such a wonderful character and they have skillfully crafted the tension between her and Amaar that I would hate to see them blow the entire show just to toss out a romance before its time.

    Well, well, well… Fred has a ‘human’ side after all. And didn’t Layla have the best and most insightful line out of the show and the series to date!!!

    “Mr. Tupper when you get to know people you start to see them as individuals and its starts a process of understanding which builds bridges between cultures which in your line of work is a real bad idea, toots.”

    Not only does this point out the need for people to just sit down and get to *know* each other instead of just letting fear, ignorance and/or arrogance shape our perceptions of those who may be different from ourselves, but it points out role that those who have controlled our information, be it the media, government, religious leaders and/or educators play in shaping those perceptions.

  2. Alex

    I know that this is a comedy so it does rely on stereotypes, but Fred has always seemed to be the character that they haven’t “gotten quite right”.

    I believe it’s because of the liberal arrogance thinking all he does is be a “blowhard” and just gives people an opportunity to vent.

    In real life such people play an important role in holding government accountable, focusing people’s concerns in constructive ways to benefit the community, and to give a voice to people who otherwise wouldn’t have access to the mass media.

    Again, I guess since this is a comedy perhaps I should just understand that they show the negative for comic effect, but I do think there’s an underlining bias there that comes from their liberal perspective.

    As for Fred having a “human side” I have always seen that. Sure he might act in a way unusual for many such like calling people “toots” but he means no harm and since he means no harm people should be “tolerant” of his ways.

    As for getting to “know” people well I feel that both sides are to blame. People feel comfortable among “their own” and so it is hard to break free of that and associate with peopl outside of their group. That is how misconceptions start.

    One of the things that I feel this show has done kind of a poor job at is that it mostly portrays Canadians as Muslims. What I mean are people not so different than people you might know except they might happen to have an accent here or there (both most of them don’t) and if they are female they might wear a headscarf (yeah I know it’s called “the hijab”) and they have different traditions regarding food, and they can’t drink alcohol and such but other than that they seem pretty “normal”. Except of course for Baber.

    Perhaps that is supposed to be the message here. The message perhaps is supposed to be that Muslims are really not that different than anyone else. But that’s the the Muslims that people have a problem with. After all people would hardly know that they are Muslims if they saw them walking down the street. And sure it would come up in conversation sometime if people worked with these Muslims or when to school with them, but most of the time they wouldn’t think of the individuals they know as “the Muslims”. They see them as a friend. At the very least they see them as “part of their own” and someone they can for the most part except for little things here and there they can relate to. And again that just might be the point.

    But the Muslims people have a problem with are the “Baber” type, or the type of women who would wear the burqa. The burqa in particular is hard for western people to see since we believe in individuality and the burqa at least from our perspective seems to us as crushing that individuality. Also when you can’t see the defining features of an individual wherever they are wearing a burqa or even like when a westerner wears a skicap or a mask, it of course would be hard to identify that person if need be. So it does play into the suspicion that one is “up to something”.

    They had one episode about a person who wore a burqa, but why can’t they have a regular character who wears the burqa? It is because at least I believe it is because it would be hard to write lines for that woman. That woman would have no personality and that is what freaks us out so much.

    Any way while of course there should never be laws about who one must associate with, the insular Muslims are the ones that people have the problem with. The ones whose manner of dress are widely different than Western clothing. The ones who speak with an accent that makes them very hard to understand or who indeed can’t speak English at all (that is true with all immigrants). It is those we get suspicious of. It is those we wonder if they are “up to something”. Perhaps we should take a closer look at the Muslims who blend in as a threat, but it is just human nature to look at the foreign as that is what stands out.

    Now of course the main problem we have with Muslims is the terrorism that they are responsible for. Now, sure again and again we keep being told that their are only a few Muslims involved, but the problem is that the Muslims involved use their religion as a way to rally people to their cause. They use the Mosque as a place to find people who might help them carry out their attacks. Again, not all Muslims and not all Mosques are hotbeds, but there are a few. And while you may say it is wrong to hold a whole community suspect, especially when the community is insular, it is hard to distinguish those who are a threat from those who aren’t. The same was true about the Japanese community during WWII. While you may say that how we reacted was wrong (I think it was a necessary evil done in extreme times that prevented worse evils from occurring) the fact that there were a few in the Japanese community at that time who were willing to assist the Japanese and do us harm.

    Any way, getting back to the main point, how do we get to “know” each other when the community involved is so insular? I am not saying that the community should become less insular as people have a right to associate with and not associate with whomever they want, but when a community is insular it just makes it very difficult for people not within the community to get to “know” people within the community.

  3. Alex

    “what I mean is that they are people not so different than people you might know except they might happen to have an accent here or there (both most of them don’t)”

    Sorry I meant Most of the Muslims on the show don’t have accents. Baber has the most noticeable accent. Yasir and Fatima also have accents but they don’t seem to be that noticeable. The rest of them don’t have accents so that makes them seem not foreign but just “another Canadian”. And if that’s the point then well I guess its made well. But again, people don’t have problems with Muslims who “blend in” but those who stand out.

  4. Lesia

    First off “liberal” is not a dirty word isn’t it about time some people stop pretending it is? This equating a liberal to something along the lines of an axe murderer is not only stupidly annoying but shows the rest of the world just how very little we understand our own language.

    I’m sorry Alex I’m having a hard time follow what you posted. You seem to change your mind most of the time in mid-sentence which makes your paragraphs very confusing at best. I’ve read your post a few times and I’m still not sure what you are for and what you are against. Then again maybe there’s a little to much blood in my coffee stream today.

    This however I did understand:
    (The ones who speak with an accent that makes them very hard to understand or who indeed can’t speak English at all (that is true with all immigrants).)

    This is NOT true! I have known several immigrants who have better English skills than many of my fellow Americans. One gentleman I dated who was from Bombay, now Mumbia, not only spoke the language better but wrote English so well he could have taught English on a college level. He is a microbiologist so the majority of his education in India was focused on science not language arts, yet just his basic training in English surpassed what is taught here as English to English speaking students every day.

  5. Alex

    First of all, Liberal, as it is used in its current context to describe certain people is a bad word.

    Second, either by purpose or accident you misinterpreted what I posted. I said one of the things that bother people about some Muslims is that they have accents that are hard to understand or they can speak no English. Now this isn’t only limited to Muslims. People have a bad impression of any one who either can’t speak English well or can’t speak English at all.

    Now most Muslims in the West do speak English well and therefore people don’t have as much animosity towards them in general unless they stand out in another way.

  6. charmape

    I’m not here to post long paragraphs like you guys…but,

    First cliff hanger ever in the LMOTP series!
    The good side of Fred Tupper!
    Rayyan has trouble telling Amaar about J.J.

    Great episode. Can’t wait for next week’s episode for the conclusion between all this.

  7. Kim

    I believe what Alex was saying is that most people don’t have a problem with the type of Muslims portrayed on the show (except Baber). It’s the Baber type of Muslim that they have a problem with so if this show is about building bridges between Muslims and the rest of society, well it’s not these Muslims that the bridges need to be built to. It’s the Baber type of Muslim that we need to get to know.

    So, does the show fail us in mostly portraying non-Baber Muslims? People who are just like us except for some very, very minor differences here and there.

    Or, is that the point? Do the Baber type of Muslim actually make up a very small part of the Muslim community in Canada?

  8. Nahida

    “Mr. Tupper when you get to know people you start to see them as individuals and it starts a process of understanding which builds bridges between cultures which in your line of work is a real bad idea, toots.”

    I love love LOVE that line! I LOVE how Layla and Fred were in this episode.

    And I hope Rayyan doesn’t end up breaking any hearts, both the men are so nice. I don’t want to see either of them broken hearted.

    Unrequited love hurts like the devil.

  9. Nutty

    I think to say that people in north america only fear and have issues with the Babar type of muslim is nieve. What I see as truth is that most people believe the Rayannes and the Ammars to be the Babar type. You can’t tell me that if the people who fear the Babar type don’t think the same thing of the Fatimas they meet? No matter the dress or the accent those that fear it will fear it. And what I love about this show is that it shows many kinds of muslims and it shows that even the Babars have good hearts and good intentions.

  10. Mo

    I had a point to make but it was covered thoroughly by Nutty, so I don’t have anything else to add.

    Except that I am going to miss this show so much – it’s my understanding that this was the season finale? Can’t wait for the next season!

    And also, to the writers, if they read this – what happened to Fatima? She wasn’t in this one, and I’m pretty sure she wasn’t in the last one either…

  11. Adara

    Fatima is saving up her sass for the next episode =P Just kidding, I have no idea where she went.
    Alex–if I catch your drift, I’ll tell you that the show is meant to show that most Muslims are “normal” by Western standards, though they have “idiosyncrasies” like sometimes not having dogs. Unlike you (to your credit), a LOT of people think that even “normal” Muslims are terrorists, and like you (not such a good thing), hold a lot of very basic misconceptions about Muslims…for example, the mosque thing–everyone who knows common sense about Islam (even if all you know is from that show, Sleeper Cell) knows that terrorists avoid mosques (at least in the US).
    I won’t even attempt to address the tripe you said about interning Japanese and their descendants in the US, except to say that *we dropped two gigantic atomic bombs on their country that affected countless civilians for years afterward*. I feel like interning them here was a bit much.
    Time to study for my Chinese test!

  12. Samina

    Mo,

    I don’t think this is the last of the season, we haven’t had 20 shows for season 2 this is number 17 thus there should be 3 more to go. These are:

    18 Security Alert – J.J. and Rayyan look for a chaperone for their budding relationship.

    19 Islam on Tap – J.J. seems to be intimidated by Rayaan’s dating experience

    20 Marriage minded – After a short courtship, J.J. decides to ask Rayyan to marry him

    I think the season will end with the proposal but without the reply. I feel bad for Amaar already, especially when she tells him he’s on his high horse and he mutters “it’s lonely up there”

    I don’t think the J.J thing will happen i think it is meant as an eye opener for Rayyan and Amaar. She already felt uncomfortable telling him about J.J. and she usually doesn’t have that problem. Even Yasir thought she only had eyes for Amaar. It would be funny seeing Rayyan and Amaar as husband and wife.

    J.J. has a frightening resemblance to my brother 😦

    I also loved Laila’s ending quote bravo LMOTP.

  13. Alex

    “I feel like interning them here was a bit much.”

    Adara perhaps it was but can we really say. Those were difficult and extreme times and difficult and extreme measures were perhaps necessary. I believe the actions were correct for two reasons. One, there were people within the Japanese-American community who were supporters of the Japanese over American. What percentage we will never know but they did exist.

    Two, unfortunately it was for their own protection. Some people after getting a letter saying their son or brother, uncle, best friend, whoever died in the Pacific might take out their anger on innocent Japanese in America.

    But again, different times. Extreme times so we are really not in a position to say.

  14. Alex

    Regarding the show, I believe it would be much more difficult to have a show where practically everyone spoke and dressed like Baber, where the Iman actually had a beard like most Imans do and where they had a regular cast member who is in a burka.

    But I really believe those are the kinds of Muslims that as Layla puts it the process of understanding which builds bridges between cultures needs to take place with.

  15. Alex

    Sleeper Cell, that was a great show. The only thing I didn’t like was I thought it was out of character for the Muslim FBI agent to have had sexual relations with his girlfriend but other than that it was very well done and important in the way they showed different types of Muslims.

    We need more shows like that on television.

  16. wow, what a cliffhanger…lol great show. Can’t wait for next week!

  17. Nahida

    “J.J. has a frightening resemblance to my brother ”

    aha your brother must be handsome Samina xD

  18. asiila

    salaams and greetings:

    nicely done episode, good balance without too much of annoying sarah. nice cliff hanger and Layla seems to be getting a clue, finally.

    the idea that ‘tradition’ is not all that bad after all, especially since this ‘arranged’ marriage is really not “that” arranged, is a good one. In this case, they both have known each other for years—only now, they’re officially seeing if they wish to pursue marriage. I think americans would do good to emulate this instead of falling in and out of love and lust on a whim. Actually, it’s only been a few generations since when this kind of arrangement or ‘family based courting’ was the norm for how men and women got to know each and wed in Amerikkka.

    the ‘babar’ muslim? what is that; those who don’t wear western clothes and are more strict? what’s wrong with that? if anything, they make fun of a good majority ‘type’ whose members are NOT terrorists and simply do not want to compromise in certain areas. If he was that hardcore, he would’ve come down on Layla already…

    my bet is that obviously, this interest between JJ and Rayyan is the push that will be used to get Rayyan and Ammar to admit their attraction for each other, and them closer to getting wed. It’s one of the oldest plot device in the world…

    asiila

  19. Of course the Mercy Muslims aren’t a threat.

    But don’t pretend that there aren’t Muslims out there who are threats.

    http://videogaleri.hurriyet.com.tr/Video.aspx?s=5&vid=2107

    Too many people like to pretend that it is all just fearmongering.

  20. “The ‘babar’ Muslim? what is that; those who don’t wear western clothes and are more strict? ”

    That would be them.

    “what’s wrong with that?”

    Those are who we need to build bridges with. Most people don’t have problems with the ‘Amaar’ Muslims or the ‘Rayyan’ Muslims. It’s the ‘Baber’ Muslims they have problems with.

    “If he was that hardcore, he would’ve come down on Layla already.”

    Yeah, not even Baber is really a ‘Baber’ Muslim on this show. These Muslims really don’t reflect the type of Muslims we have problems with and need to build bridges to.

  21. Asiila why did you spell America wrong?

  22. We have one show with Burqa lady and then we never see her again.

    What happened? She no longer goes to the Mosque? The only Mosque in town?

    The reason is because even though women like Burqa lady exist in the real world that isn’t the perception this show wants us to have about Muslims. This show wants us to think all Muslims are just like us except for some small “idiosyncrasies” here and there.

    I am not saying that if they are different than us that would necessarily be bad. It wouldn’t be unless they posed some threat to us. But what I am saying is for a show that is supposed to be about building “bridges of understanding” why characterize the type of Muslims we don’t have any misunderstandings with to begin with? Wouldn’t it be more challenging but more significant if the show was about Muslims we have misunderstandings about (if indeed our impressions of them are misunderstandings).

  23. Nahida

    The reason is because even though women like Burqa lady exist in the real world that isn’t the perception this show wants us to have about Muslims. This show wants us to think all Muslims are just like us except for some small “idiosyncrasies” here and there.

    No, the reason is because she no longer fit in the story line. If what you said was true, what happened to the “convert”?

    Yeah, not even Baber is really a ‘Baber’ Muslim on this show. These Muslims really don’t reflect the type of Muslims we have problems with and need to build bridges to.

    Yes, he is. There are plenty of Muslims who wear the clothes and have the accent but are pretty much harmless. I’m sorry you don’t know them enough to realize this. That’s why we have this show. Now if you refuse to believe it, that’s your choice. Whatever flows your boat.

    The Muslims we have “problems” with are the terrorists. There’s no reason to build bridges with them–that’s why they aren’t in the show.

  24. Nahida

    Alex, you make it seem like people can’t build bridges with different clothes and accents.

  25. sakurapassion

    “I think americans would do good to emulate this instead of falling in and out of love and lust on a whim. Actually, it’s only been a few generations since when this kind of arrangement or ‘family based courting’ was the norm for how men and women got to know each and wed in Amerikkka.”

    The statement of “family based courting” is incorrect actually. Unless you’re talking about the 1940’s and 50’s, the way Americans courted each was different than it is today, but parents really weren’t that involved. It’s kind of generalization to say that people fall in and out love on a whim.

    Anywho, about the show, I liked this episode but does it seem that Rayaan is having some conflicts about her possible feelings for Amaar? At least it came off like to me.

    To be honest, I like Barbar, he’s funny at times.

  26. Alex

    I like Baber too, but of course we are supposed to.

    But come on, his daughter kept the job despite her father telling her not to. That would not have been tolerated if Baber was really the type of Muslim that he projects himself as being.

    The show has always shown that he has a soft spot when it comes to his daughter that tends to make him compromise on his Islam concerning her.

    Too bad the same wasn’t true about Aqsa Parvez’s father. Too bad the same wasn’t true about Banaz Mahmod’s father.

  27. Alex

    Nahida it is hard to build bridges with people in insular communities. I am not saying that they should become less insular, for that’s their right to be if they want to. but I am just saying that misconceptions often do come up when the community is insular.

  28. Alex

    “Yes, he is. There are plenty of Muslims who wear the clothes and have the accent but are pretty much harmless. I’m sorry you don’t know them enough to realize this. That’s why we have this show.”

    But you DON’T have that in this show. You have one character in this show like that. Just one.

    They don’t even have the Iman on this show have a beard.

  29. sakurapassion

    “But come on, his daughter kept the job despite her father telling her not to. That would not have been tolerated if Baber was really the type of Muslim that he projects himself as being.”

    What type of Muslim does he projects himself as being? Yes, he’s conservative, but how conservative should he be?

  30. Nahida

    But you DON’T have that in this show. You have one character in this show like that. Just one.

    Alex it’s a small town, how many do you want?

  31. Alex

    “Alex it’s a small town, how many do you want?”

    Well, if the show is about building bridges and all of that then they all should be. And the Iman should wear a beard.

    Then that would be an accomplishment if the show can promote a positive view of Muslims to the rest of Canada. For right now they just look like regular Canadians with just some small “idiosyncrasies” here and there. But the real challenge would be if they could be portrayed as yes, really different than other Canadians but still harmless. That would be confronting our perceptions of them straight on.

  32. Alex

    The show could have been about a bearded Iman and a bunch of Muslims who all spoke and dressed like Baber (throw in a burqa lady or two) who immigrate from wherever-stan to the small town of Mercy in the Canadian prairies.

    Then you would get the clash of cultures that lots of people in the West (especially the UK) are feeling right now.

    Of course some would probably criticize that kind of show as being too “Beverly Hillbillish” and insulting to immigrants.

  33. Alex

    The show still hasn’t shown how the Muslims on the show pray to Allah five times a day without it conflicting with work or school. They had one episode where Sarah tried and failed to pray five times a day so is that saying that this is one Islamic tradition that Muslims in the West must give up in order to fit into modern western society?

  34. Alex

    “Sleeper Cell” seemed to strike the right balance between the fact that most Muslims aren’t a threat and the fact that some indeed are. And also it showed the various types of Muslims out there especially the “New Recruit Western radical” and the Bosnian Muslim who can blend in all too easily.

    We need more shows like Sleeper Cell on the air. This show goes too far the other way in the portrayal of Muslims.

  35. Alex

    I like to think that most all the Muslims in the West were like the Mercy Muslims. There is, though something that prevents me from doing that.

    At New Utrecht High School, a High School in the Brooklyn area of New York City, within view of the Twin Towers, it was mentioned by some of their students that it was interesting how many Muslim Students “just happened” to bring cameras to school on September 11th, 2001.

    Oh, that must of just been a coincidence. Just like what a Muslim student said in a classroom at the same High School a week before about those buildings (pointing out the window to the Twin Towers) not going to be there a week from now. Just a coincidence.

    Look it up. Not a myth but the truth. One of the best reports about this came from a reporter for the left leaving MSNBC who investigated this report with the preconceived idea that he was going to expose it as an urban myth but to his shock he did find out it was indeed true. It does show that reporters most often do investigate reports with a preconceived notion in mind. I give him credit for reporting on it anyway despite learning that his preconceived notion about it being a myth was false.

  36. Reporter for the left leaning MSNBC. He wanted to be able to say there was no truth to the story but to his shock he found out no, it was indeed true.

    Here’s the report.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3067562/

  37. Alex

    Until someone can satisfactory explain this tell me why I shouldn’t mistrust Muslims in my country.

  38. Nahida

    Well, if the show is about building bridges and all of that then they all should be. And the Iman should wear a beard.

    But they’re not all like that. If the show depicted them that way, it would be inaccurate. You can’t shove aside one purpose to address another.

  39. Susan

    The show still hasn’t shown how the Muslims on the show pray to Allah five times a day without it conflicting with work or school. They had one episode where Sarah tried and failed to pray five times a day so is that saying that this is one Islamic tradition that Muslims in the West must give up in order to fit into modern western society?

    Thought I’d mention that in that particular episode, Sarah got carried away (she prayed more than 5 times a day). She even got up in the middle of the night to pray.

  40. Nahida

    Until someone can satisfactory explain this tell me why I shouldn’t mistrust Muslims in my country.

    And that makes it sound like you’re saying it’s only your country–not the Muslims’. If we’re going to play that game, why don’t you ask a few Native Americans whose country it is.

    If you want to believe that all these Muslims knew what was going on and word didn’t get out to prevent it, you can go ahead and do that. You’re free to trust or mistrust whomever you like.

    Thousands of Japanese people were put in camps during World War II because the United States could not trust them. That’s what you reminded me of when you said you couldn’t trust Muslims because they are Muslims. I guess in your country we’re guilty until proven innocent.

  41. Nahida

    I know I sound animostic, but I’m not. Just so ya know.

  42. Nahida, Just explain this to me.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3067562/

    Nahida, please because it has confused me for years.

  43. Nahida, there is another perspective on the whole Japanese interment thing that you probably never have heard.

    I suggest you read this book, if only to see that there is another perspective that exists out there.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=nvsIQNwYvSwC

  44. Niihau is the smallest of the inhabited Hawaiian Islands .

    Niihau played a small role during the attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941. An off-course Japanese pilot crash landed at Niihau and was captured by locals. With the assistance of local Japanese residents, the pilot escaped, but was later recaptured and killed. The incident is referred to locally as the “Niihau Incident” or the “Battle of Niihau.”

    So, please don’t tell me how all the people of Japanese ancestry in America during the time of World War II were just as loyal to America as any true red blooded American. It’s not true. It’s a lie they have told you in school and you should be angry that they lied to you about it.

  45. Alex

    That is what I liked about “Sleeper Cell”. It was much more realitic as it showed that indeed the vast majority of Muslims in America aren’t involved in terrorism and would never be involved in any way with terrorism. But there is among your people those who would help terrorists, and those who might not help the terrorists but are certainly sympathetic with their aims and objectives. Again, the show was careful to show that they are indeed a very small fraction within your community but they indeed move around and hide in your midst.

  46. Mo

    SAMINA, thank you for your comment! I heard somewhere this was the last one, but I’m just as happy (thrilled, even) that it’s not!!! I love this show, and the more I get of it, the happier I am. 🙂 Can’t wait for next episode!

  47. Alex

    Here is something I found in another article…

    One New Utrecht official told me that of the 509 Arab-American students who attend the school, many have come forward with their own stories about having prior knowledge. “Kids are telling us that the attacks didn’t surprise them,” she told me. “This was a nicely protected little secret that circulated in the community around here. I guess they were talking about it among themselves, but they didn’t share it with us at least not before the attacks.”

    —-

    I like the MSNBC report the best though because the guy who reported it was looking into the story with the absolute belief that it was false (proves that journalists can go into stories with preconceived notions). He absolutely thought it was nothing but an “urban myth” that developed in trauma after the event But instead he found out the name of the teacher who heard the student say it and he confirmed instead of discredited the story. His goal was exactly the opposite, he wanted to prove the story to be a myth, but he found out to his great dismay that the story was indeed true.

    There were three different articles regarding this story I have read over the years. The only difference is that one said the boy was Palestinian and the others said he was Pakistani. I tend to think that the original report that he was Palestinian was a factual error but that error in no way changes the most relevant facts of this story. Muslims (even Muslim high school children) in New York City obviously knew what was going to happen on 9-11-2001 but did not tell law enforcement or the news media about it!

  48. Alex

    In the movie “Pearl Harbor” there was a part where a Japanese-American Dentist gets a call by someone who asks him in Japanese some questions about the Navy ships in the harbor (which happens to be outside the window of his office) which he then answers. He then says to his assistant “that was a strange call” implying that he didn’t know who the person on the other end was and that he was tricked into giving the information.

    Well, Japanese-American groups were outraged that part was even in the move even though it was based on something that actually happened. But they said the real guy was cleared of being a spy and I looked on the internet and from what I could tell the name of the real dentist was Motokazu Mori.

    And yeah, they did have an inquiry in 1944 called the Hart Inquiry.

    http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/pha/hart/hart-28.html

    And in it they do clear Mori.

    But here is what is strange Mrs. Motokazu Mori a was a news correspondent utilized by Yomiuir Shimbun, a rather hawkish news journal published in Japan. And as tensions increased in Japan the US government tapped the phones of her and her husband and that is how the conversation in question was heard.

    It was traced back to the offices of Yomiuir Shimbun so obviously the dentist would have known who he is talking about.

    But still, he and his wife were cleared of wrongdoing. Why?

    The only thing I can think of is the Hart Inquiry was trying to absolve the higher-ups at Pearl Harbor for any responsibility from knowing that an attack was imminent. Admitted that they had intercepted a call that indicated that an attack was imminent would have raised the question why didn’t they do anything about it. So as part of the whitewash the Mori’s spying was swept under the cover.

    But the point is that the movie was shown in Spring 2001 yet after all this time you had interest groups still trying to cover up what happened back then and when that failed trying to give half of the story about the Dentist (and in real life his wife). And now I fear they do the same thing about Muslim terrorist activity in the US. Just a few articles about the New Utrecht incident after all these years (last year the Investors Business Daily mentioned it, good for them but no final conclusion from our government). And the reason here is probably the same. Admit that Muslims in New York knew ahead of time of the pending attack and it means that the government should have (might have) known about the attack ahead of time. And then of course you have the politically correct reason which is the same reason one would pretend the whole Dentist Pre-Pearl Harbor phone call thing didn’t happen over a half of century after it really matters.

  49. Alex

    Well, Japanese-American groups were outraged that part was even in the movie even though it was based on something that actually happened. And then they said, well the real dentist was cleared. And while that is indeed the case, the real story is far more suspicious and the reasons that he (and his wife) might have been cleared far more dubious.

  50. Alex

    It was traced back to the offices of Yomiuir Shimbun so obviously the dentist would have known who he is talking about.

    I meant “talking to.” He would have known who the person was at the other end of the phone. But the movie made it look like he had no idea who was on the other end but he just answered the anonymous Japanese speaking person on the other end of the line out of what? Politeness?

  51. Alex

    “it. So as part of the whitewash the Mori’s spying was swept under the cover.”

    Of course I mean swept under the carpet.

  52. Alex

    Yeah, the movie was shown in Spring 2001 and all the Leftist groups, all the ethnic groups, all the people you would expect to complain all did complain.

    And even though the movie was pretty good (I saw it I have seen better but it wasn’t bad) I don’t think it did very well in bringing in the audience, at least not as well as they expected.

    Spring 2001, yeah. No we don’t learn from history do we?

    By the way, for me at least, and I believe I can say that this the case in general, Remember Pearl Harbor has nothing to do with the Japanese. Yeah, they were the ones who attacked, but when I think “Remember Pearl Harbor” I think why weren’t we prepared? Why were we not ready? To me it’s not saying “lets hate Japanese, it’s about being always vigilant and prepared.

    But in Spring 2001 it seems that a whole lot of Americans didn’t want to “Remember Pearl Harbor” and I fear that’s the where we are at today as well.

  53. Alex

    No, I don’t believe our government knew ahead of time that 9-11 was going to happen.

    What I do believe is that there were clues all over the place about an impending attack but the government was too afraid about being accused of “racial profiling” to perform due diligence and engage in the reasonable investigations they should have done. The fear of ethnic interest groups prevented them from doing the things that now looking back we realize they should have done.

    In short, Political Correctness brought down those towers and I fear that that same Political Correctness is today handcuffing our government making yet another attack inevitable.

  54. Nahida

    I don’t think political correctness is making “another attack inevitable.” Racial profiling doesn’t make things more efficient–it just makes them faster.

    The police say they have been working closely with two of the three mosques in the area. One is run by an Irishman who converted to Islam and became an imam, the other by a baggage handler for American Airlines.

    Because what if the guy’s Irish?

    As for not telling the law enforcements–that’s ridiculous. If all those Muslims knew the word would’ve gotten out through SOMEBODY. Hell, I know I would have certainly told. And they did–not with the intention of stopping it–but they did:

    On Oct. 11, Jeffrey Scott Shapiro, an aggressive young reporter for The New York Journal News of Westchester County, N.Y., published an article that tracked the story to New Utrecht High School in Brooklyn, N.Y. Shapiro identified a teacher who witnessed a freshman in her class saying the week prior to the World Trade Center attacks: “Do you see those two buildings? They won’t be standing there next week.”

    If this was a published article, I don’t understand why the government did not investigate before 9/11. Maybe it didn’t seem as a large threat to them, but a couple years back there was young girl who had “KILL BUSH” written all over her MySpace. The FBI pulled her out of school to question her. She was in MIDDLE SCHOOL and obviously wasn’t planning on assassinating the president. But they questioned her anyway. If they can do that, I don’t see why they couldn’t investigate the youth who claimed the towers would no longer be there.

    No, I don’t believe our government knew ahead of time that 9-11 was going to happen.

    I don’t believe it either. But when I look at some of the government officials, I wouldn’t put it past them.

  55. Alex

    If this was a published article, I don’t understand why the government did not investigate before 9/11.

    The article was published on 10/11/2001, a month after the towers fell.

    http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/18261.html

  56. Alex

    I guess it was the other way around. The kid was Palestinian. But of course Pakistani or Palestinian the important thing is of course that what the kid said he said exactly a week before the towers actually fell.

    I am sorry, but how can that be just a strange coincidence?

    And as the story reported, there were other incidences of this prior to 9-11-2001 as well. This one just seems to be the best publicly documented one.

    The FBI pulled her out of school to question her. She was in MIDDLE SCHOOL and obviously wasn’t planning on assassinating the president..

    Well, even before 9-11 threats against the President were never just taken as a joke, and in the case you mentioned it was a post 9-11 environment. But of course while she may not have been planning on assassinating the president she might have been exposed to those who were (family members and the like).

    Racial profiling doesn’t make things more efficient–it just makes them faster.

    And like that’s NOT important when we are talking about possibly stopping an imminent attack?

  57. Nahida

    And like that’s NOT important when we are talking about possibly stopping an imminent attack?

    FASTER and LESS EFFIECENT Alex. Liek I said, what if the guy’s Irish?

  58. Nahida

    By the way, I find it interesting that Amaar said he gave blood during Ramadan (it wasn’t this episode) does anyone know if that’s allowed because I thought it was discouraged in order to keep people from fainting.

  59. Alex

    Because what if the guy’s Irish?

    I don’t think there was any significance about the one Iman being Irish. Of course the part about the other Iman being a baggage handler for American Airlines we all can understand why that might raise eyebrows. Now what I wonder is that the article said they were working closely with “with two of the three mosques in the area.” So, that third uncooperative Mosque, was that the Mosque that the high school kid went to?

    By the way, is it typical for Imans to have other jobs outside the Mosque? If so, why doesn’t Amaar on the show have another job outside of being Iman of a very small Mosque?

    It is sad that just like the whole Honolulu Dentist and his wife who was a news correspondent utilized by Yomiuir Shimbun, a rather hawkish Japanese news journal incident, forces here too seem to be sweeping this incident under the carpet making it less than even a footnote in history whereas its significance is so, so much more.

  60. Alex

    I don’t think its an issue where “racial profiling alone” would work. But law enforcement needs to be free from the fear of being accused of racial profiling.

    For example, if some flight schools in Texas call up the FBI saying that, hey we have some Arab looking men coming to us wanting to learn how to fly, but the landing part, they aren’t particularly interested in that, the FBI shouldn’t have to fear that they would be brought up in front of Congress and attacked by all those racial interest groups being accused of racial profiling.

    Sure, the fact that they were Arab looking may have put the thought in the back of the minds of the flight instructors, but of course the lack of interest in the landing part was the thing that motivated them to call the FBI.

    And what if instead of being “Arab looking” the men were “rural looking” “Aryan Nations” looking men who wanted to learn how to fly but not land. That would be a racial stereotype too, but in that case the FBI would have had no fear of investigating as they wouldn’t have had to fear those ethnic special interest groups. In both cases the real red flag would have been the men’s lack of interest in landing, but in the case of the “Aryan’s” arrests would have made and lives would have been saved, as opposed to what really happened.

    No, Political Correctness brought those towers down that day in September. And that climate of fear that Law Enforcement had about ethnic interest groups and accusations of racial profiling is just as strong now as it was on September 10th, 2001. It is only a matter of time until Political Correctness will yet again claim its victims, this time perhaps even more than before.

  61. Samina

    NAHIDA,
    “aha your brother must be handsome Samina xD”

    I wouldn’t know for me he’ s just my brother. I don’t think J.J is any competition for Amaar, Amaar is in a league of his own. Amaar will win hands down.

    MO,
    I’m glad there is someone who enjoys this as much as me, don’t worry you have 3 more episodes before the withdrawal symptoms kick in.

    I’m confused Alex and in the past Kevin. Why is it so difficult to appreciate the show as a bit of light harmless humour, the way it was intended. I hope you guys soon understand that there is no hidden agenda, the show is not sending any hidden messages. No one is going to be brainwashed by events depicted in this show. What you my friend are suffering from is a severe case of paranoia. You are babbling on about living in fear from Muslims yet you continue to use phrases like “my country”. You are not exactly the most welcoming of people we should be afraid of you! Did you bloody build the country by hand yourself from scratch? I think not, how much have you actually contibuted to the country other than taxes which Muslims too pay? If anything the average Muslim should be afraid of narrow minded people like you!

    Your constant bombarding of stupid and irrelevant links to pathetic videos and articles is starting to get annoying.

    For once try to open your eyes and your mind to the possibility that there are more things to fear than the average muslim. You are worried about events in the past that have shown a small group of “Muslims” causing harm to others and managed to conclude that the only threat to your life is “Muslims”. It doesn’t look like you have much else to do so you must have plenty of time to research and see that Muslims are by far the biggest threat to you. Your own narrowmind and paranoia is in itself a threat to you. Wake up and look around. Don’t pick and choose what you want to and instead see the bigger picture.

    Live and let live and above all learn to lighten up!!!!!

  62. Samina

    NAHIDA,
    I was under that impression too that giving blood is discouraged due to the increased chance of fainting. Although he didn’t say he did it whilst fasting it could have been after he opened his fast.

  63. Alex

    Why is it so difficult to appreciate the show as a bit of light harmless humour, the way it was intended.

    Because the show has never been intended to be that. It has always been publicized as a show with an higher agenda than just mere comedy.

    For once try to open your eyes and your mind to the possibility that there are more things to fear than the average muslim.

    Oh, I know that. I wish I only had Muslims to fear. In fact I just see them as a symptom then the problem itself. I do see the whole thing in its larger context and Muslims are just a very, very small part of it.

    And actually I hope that Muslims will understand who the real enemy is as well. We really should be allies to a great extent.

    And again, I know its not the whole community to blame, but what bothers me is those who pretend that small element isn’t within the Muslim community at all.

    Or to relate it to an earlier (though still going to some extent) conflict with an element within an ethnic community, no Not all Italian immigrants are members of the Mafia, but please, don’t pretend the Mafia didn’t exist at all. Joseph Colombo was indeed a mobster!

  64. Alex

    Did you bloody build the country by hand yourself from scratch?

    Well, actually YEAH, I did.

    Well of course not me but I can trace my family line in some cases to the beginning of the 20th century and in others even 300 years back (and one of my great, great grandmothers might have had some Native American blood in her so what do you think about that).

    I have some great uncles who served in WWII. I can trace other relatives to serving in the Union Army during the Civil War. So, yeah, we have built this country, from scratch. Made some mistakes along the way, committed some sins, other times were forced to do things that were unpleasant but necessary, but when all was said and done made a very fine country too. All that to now see it fall into decay.

    Now it does make an interesting discussion topic just “how deep” does ones roots need to be before they can claim ownership, but certainly one who has been here at least several generations have more right to a claim than someone who just got off the plane yesterday.

  65. Alex

    Look I am more or less receptive of new people coming into my community, and even willing to make some accommodations here and there. But when all is said and done it is my community they are coming into, not vice versa.

  66. Alex

    I guess one of the things that bothered me about this episode what the impression that people would get all that upset about Muslims not owning dogs as pets.

    Now, I realize that this is a satire, this is a comedy, and of course you have to take stuff like that with that perspective in mind. But still, if the impression that the show is trying to project is that the only issues that people have with Muslims are superficial ones, well that is not the case. A discussion about Muslims not owning dogs wouldn’t have lasted more than a few station breaks.

    Yeah, its a comedy, and not supposed to be seen that literally, but still I am talking about the overall impression such a scene projects.

  67. Kay

    Whew, so tense everyone. About the dog thing – I thought that the ‘cat lady’ that confronted Fred was hilarious. I know people like that!!!! She scared me and I think she scared Fred too. Imagine that – Fred has a whole new group to pick on. People do get caught up in their interests and take things personally – just like the cat lady (did you see her sweater!?).

  68. Alex

    Tense times, Kay. And things are going to get much worse before they get better.

    If they ever do get better, that is.

    Tense Times.

  69. Nahida

    I have to say I at least like Alex a little better than Kevin or Matt. But–

    Well, actually YEAH, I did.

    Well of course not me but I can trace my family line in some cases to the beginning of the 20th century and in others even 300 years back (and one of my great, great grandmothers might have had some Native American blood in her so what do you think about that).

    Native American thing is very convincing. -rolls eyes-

    You’re saying that America is NOT my country because my parents weren’t born here.

    You’re saying that America is NOT my country because I can’t trace my ancestry back three hundred years?

    And that’s not just ONE IRISH IMAM. I know plenty of white people who are Muslims, thank you very much. And a lot of Palestinians and Afgans can easily pass for white.

  70. Nahida

    Samina, I think it was during the time he was fasting ’cause he said they offered him a cookie and he couldn’t take it.

  71. Nahida

    Oh yeah, Alex, no, imams usually don’t have other jobs.

  72. Alex

    Native American thing is very convincing. -rolls eyes

    People of mixed blood with the Native Americans were much more common than you might think. It was though seen as a disgrace back then so it was something someone with mixed blood would try to hide if possible.

    History is much, much more complex than many people try to make it out to be.

    You’re saying that America is NOT my country because my parents weren’t born here.

    You’re saying that America is NOT my country because I can’t trace my ancestry back three hundred years?

    I am not saying that. But I am saying is that certainly the people who are in the country (which since you have lived here all your life would include you) should not be forced out by those who come to our country. And when I say “forced out” I mean culturally as well.

    I can’t think of living in another culture but here, so it is even hard for me to consider it, but if I for whatever reason did move to another country certainly it would be wrong for me getting off the plane to start demanding the people to adapt their ways to mine wouldn’t it be? It would be up to me to adapt my ways to their’s.

  73. Nahida

    People of mixed blood with the Native Americans were much more common than you might think. It was though seen as a disgrace back then so it was something someone with mixed blood would try to hide if possible.

    I didn’t mean it was RARE, I meant the way you were saying it wasn’t convincing.

  74. Still haven’t explained to me how that Palestinian/Pakistani or whatever he was knew ahead of time that the towers were going to fall the next week.

    And why so many Arab students just happened to bring cameras to school that day.

    http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/18261.html

  75. Nahida

    Yes, Alex. I can explain to you exactly how that happened. And I can do that because all Muslims know each other and have some secret network of codes and complicated numbers. Muslims knew about it ahead of time. We’re all evil and you should mistrust us all because a few journalists decided to say so.

  76. Susan

    Ok, seriously, what did you WANT her to say? Because it sounds like you’re trying to get her to admit to a huuuge conspiracy or something.

  77. Nahida

    They’re not even sure if he was from Pakistan or Palestine. That’s a question of credibility right there. The guy who wrote it says he went to prove it wrong, but why should I believe that? Smearing the truth isn’t new at all in journalism.

    All the articles you’ve listed are from the same conservative site.

  78. Nahida

    And to put it quite frankly, I don’t need to explain anything to you.

  79. Nahida

    Look, Alex, I know I just acted like you were attacking me, and you might have not meant to but that was basically what you were doing. If you honestly just want to know because you’re simply interested in that side of things, I can tell you exactly what you mentioned before, that history is much, much more complex than many people try to make it out to be–and Napolean once said that history is simply a fable agreed upon, so who even knows what’s true? I admire that you’re digging deep to find the truth, that you’re trying to right wrongs and attempting to correct even yourself. But it can also be a possibility that you’re making things too complicated. The truth, after all, despite its tendency to be stranger than fiction, can be extraordinarily simple. If the kid knew what was going on, then he knew what was going on. If the journalist is wrong, then the journalist is wrong. What do you want me to explain?

  80. Ok, I do apologize.

    It did seem like an attack when it really shouldn’t have been. Of course you wouldn’t know any more than I how it happened.

    You are an American not an immigrant. And you live in California, not New York.

    But the facts are so clear that you have to come to the same conclusion, that at least in certain insular Islamic immigrant communities in New York they knew ahead of time of the pending attack. They seemed to know the target and the general time table.

    So, while no one likes to be the focus of such attention you are just going to have to admit that in certain Islamic communities there are people plotting to harm us. Not you or members of your community most likely but in others. And we need to give our government the power to monitor what goes on in places like Mosques.

  81. “Napolean once said that history is simply a fable agreed upon, so who even knows what’s true?”

    Exactly. I feel that we have lost lots of history. There are people who feel it in their interests for us to forget. But when you forget then the history repeats itself. Not in exactly the same way. But similar themes come into play.

    And of course, radical Islam won’t be the biggest threat to us as the 21st century progresses. It will be a reconstituted European Union led by the Germans. Yes, it seems like those Germans keep popping up again and again. Scary days are ahead indeed.

    We all need to join together against the Left. We can’t let them win although up to this point they have been quite successful. Asiila is indeed right about how tradition in regards to courting and marriage isn’t a bad thing. But of course it is in the interests of our common enemy to tear the institution of marriage down.

  82. Nahida

    So, while no one likes to be the focus of such attention you are just going to have to admit that in certain Islamic communities there are people plotting to harm us. Not you or members of your community most likely but in others. And we need to give our government the power to monitor what goes on in places like Mosques.

    I’m going to have to admit that in certain Islamic communities there are people plotting to harm us? When was I ever denying it? You’re not on the edge of uncovering some extreme secret. I’m not hiding anything. There are psychopathic murderers in every community who believe they can use God as an excuse to kill themselves and harm innocent people. Islam is no different. It’s the community, the individuals of the community, the way the individuals of the community negatively interpret their own religion that leads to such conflicts. A true Muslim would know that it is against Islam attack unless it is in self-defense. And yet you have Islamic terrorism–which is in itself an oxymoron. And you have it because it is the culture and the mentality of these people that is at fault. It was not Christianity–a beautiful religion–that was behind the crusades. It was the same type of people who believe that murder and massacre is permissive way to convert in Christianity. “Savages” they called them. I’m glad Jesus is dead—if he could’ve seen that it would’ve broken his heart.

    And we need to give our government the power to monitor what goes on in places like Mosques.

    That is, I believe, a violation of Constitutional rights. As the Islamic community becomes more aware of what’s happening, they will turn people over. Why would they do this? Because no one likes being harassed by airport workers.

    But when you forget then the history repeats itself. Not in exactly the same way. But similar themes come into play.

    Trust me, I haven’t forgotten this. I’m very aware that it’s happening. And I’ll tell you the same thing I told Matt who had claimed that he was talking about TODAY, not a thousand years ago—that the similar theme is similar to this: 1. Target the outcasts of society, the mentally ill, the physically disabled, and everyone thinks “Oh well that’s too bad, but I do like this society better.” The Holocaust began with gypsies; the Witch Trials began with slaves and the homeless. 2. Choose another group to target. Be sure this group is not the majority. 3. Execute second targeting plan using propaganda (a grain of truth in a load of lies, and everyone thinks, “Well this part is true, so the rest of it must be.”) 4. Ascend slowly to the upper class.

    It may be more or less serious, more or less obvious, more or less harmful, but it’s the same story over and over again. Today IS a thousand years ago. Compared to the actual core substance, it’s only the details that are different.

    We all need to join together against the Left.

    What is the Left, Alex? Categorizing people and causes are not that easy. In many ways I’m a liberal, but I’ve also taken conservative views on things—I am, for example, antiabortion. And lately it seems that everyone has the impression that if you’re a Democrat you’re a liberal and if you’re a Republican you’re a conservative. But political parties have a thin line between them. George Washington himself believed that they were unnecessary. True that they give us an idea of where a person stands. But the idea can be extremely general, and there have been several points in the history of the United States in which political parties were practically indistinguishable from each other, and presidents did things that contradicted their general idea, especially with Thomas Jefferson (not to mention that whole tariff issue with William Howard Taft).

    And to be completely honest, I have a strong belief that everyone wants the same thing, we just have different ways of going about getting them, sort of like those times when two people are having a debate and then realize that they are arguing for the same thing–just approaching it in different perspectives so that they didn’t realize sooner, because the two different perspectives were so extreme on their respective sides.

    And I’m going to tell you again what I told Matt in response to him saying that AIDS is not our concern: that whatever religion you are, whatever race, whatever country you’re a citizen of, you are not responsible for actions taken in the past, but you are for the future.

  83. I have a strong belief that everyone wants the same thing.

    Well in that you are wrong. I for example don’t want socialism but there are people who do.

    I am anti abortion as you have stated so are you. There are people who will literally fight you to the death to ensure that abortions are legal.

    So, don’t say we want the same things. We do not. We are fundamentally and irreconcilably divided in our society, even more than I dare say we were in the 1860s. And in the end you are going to have to decide whose side you are on. And its not Republicans verses Democrats as McCain has proven that the Republican Party has become a tool of the Left as well. But of course in the Democratic party the most extreme of leftists are in control.

  84. Nahida

    Alex, I said I have a strong belief that everyone wants the same thing, we just have different ways of going about getting them. We all want our freedom and peace and equality. Some people have the idea that socialism is the way to achieve this. And especially during the Great Depression, the concept of socialism had seemed appealing in insistance of equal distribution.

    And, no, I’m not going to have to choose sides. And I’m not going to have to do that because there will never be any particular person or cause or party that I agree or disagree COMPLETELY with. Parties consist of individual people, and no two of them will be exactly alike, and what you end up with is a single party that is very diverse.

  85. Nahida

    Alex, while I am an antiabortionist, I would not make abortions illegal if I could. Abortions don’t reqire doctors–a woman can very easily abort her child herself in a variety of ways. And if she is desperate enough to do so, she will. I feel that making them illegal will only over-intensify the guilt a mother would feel after having killed her child. The pain of losing a child is enough punishment in itself without being thrown behind bars.

  86. Nahida

    And there’s an example of why I don’t have to pick sides.

  87. There are people actively working from within to destroy this once great Nation, and no I am not talking about Muslims. Well not for the most part.

    You will have to sooner or later choose sides. Please choose wisely.

  88. Azmat

    Salaam,

    as a muslim, i would simply like to add to this discussion, as started by Alex, by saying that Islam indeed has a big problem these days that it needs to deal with. just look at pakistan, indonesia, iraq, etc. there are muslims killing other muslims just because they don’t conform to their type of “Islam”. muslims have forgotten the Qur’an injunction of “There is no compulsion in matters of faith.”

    9/11 highlighted the need for muslim reform to take place. it doesn’t matter what america is doing to the muslims through their repressive foreign policies as long as muslims are doing the same to their own fellow muslims around the world.

    remember, that the greatest jihad is the jihad of the self.

  89. Matt, give it up.

    -points at video-

    Matt just killed it. I’m on their side.

  90. Alex

    You are on the side of the Left?

    You are on the pro-homosexual side?

    You are on the anti-Family side?

    Why, so you can bring the country even further down and then feel so superior about being above the infidels?

    In the end how sure can you be that the Left won’t turn on you? I can’t see how they can let Islam survive. After all Islam is pro-family. Islam is anti homosexual.

  91. Alex

    Why do you want all of America to become “the Folsom Street Fair”. Yeah, in many ways it is already is.

    I was watching a show called “Knight Rider” in it the other day and it had to have a leisban in it. They were bringing back a show that was on during the 1980s. In the 1980s there was no homosexual in the show. So that just shows how far down America has gone in what is relatively a short period of time.

    Do you really think that if you help the Left make things even worse in America, that won’t have an effect on Islam. You think that Islam will be able to totally isolate itself from the infidel culture?

    Christianity was once pretty much like Islam in the respect that it was a force that upheld traditional values in society. But the Left was able to work first externally and then from within to erode all that. But don’t think that initially Christianity wasn’t as strong a buffer from decadence as Islam is now (actually certain Christmas denominations are still pretty strong in doing that).

    Now, although I could never live the Islamic lifestyle itself with all its rules and such please don’t think I don’t respect those who do. I really do respect that people can resist social pressures be them Muslims or True Christians. But I do think Muslims understand the Left and I believe they underestimate the Left. Well Christianity made the same mistake about the Left and now look at the condition it is now (although like I say there are still some pockets here and there of True Christians and those groups are thriving whereas the more “mainline” Christian churches are failing apart.

  92. Alex

    What I meant to say was But I do think Muslims DO NOT understand the Left and DO underestimate their corrosive power over yes, even eventually Islam.

    I mean even that video you showed. Why would any Muslim (or Christian for that matter) want to see Justin Timberlake in Heaven? After all he was the one who pulled of Janet Jackson’s shirt at the Super Bowl. He is what’s wrong with American society. He is an infidel at their worst.

    So, yeah it is happening slowly, but Leftist culture is causing cracks into Muslim customs and values. And this is what happened with Christianity. Cracks started appearing and then the whole damn broke and we have the decandent society we have in America today.

  93. Alex

    Apologizes please.

    I meant DAM not the word I typed.

  94. Alex

    Why would any Muslim (or Christian for that matter) want to see Justin Timberlake in Heaven? After all he was the one who pulled off Janet Jackson’s shirt at the Super Bowl.

    I realize that the video was showing that Muslims don’t always live up to the high standards they set for themselves. When you set high standards, then indeed there will people who will fail to uphold them and even those who do won’t be able to do so all the time.

    But still Justin Timberlake? He is one of the people corroding American society, and if the video is indeed representative perhaps even Muslim society.

    Don’t make the mistake of underestimating the effect of Leftist Culture.

  95. Nahida

    You are on the side of the Left?

    You are on the pro-homosexual side?

    You are on the anti-Family side?

    In the end how sure can you be that the Left won’t turn on you? I can’t see how they can let Islam survive. After all Islam is pro-family. Islam is anti homosexual.

    Islam is not anti-homosexual. Islam is anti-homosexuality. There is a clear difference.

    Why, so you can bring the country even further down and then feel so superior about being above the infidels?

    They are not infidels.

    I realize that the video was showing that Muslims don’t always live up to the high standards they set for themselves.

    No, Alex, you did not understand what the video was showing at all. The girl was young, and she liked his music. The video was showing that Muslims are normal people with normal faults.

    So, yeah it is happening slowly, but Leftist culture is causing cracks into Muslim customs and values.

    No, it isn’t. When you use the word Leftist you are obviously thinking of the extreme Left. If we’re going to talk about extremists, you can explain how the extreme Right advocating the complete smoothering of the Middle East is not a threat to Muslim customs and values.

  96. Alex

    The far Left is what controls the Democratic party . The Less far left controls the Republican party.

  97. Nahida

    You know who’s got false hope Mat? You, if you think I’m going to believe reporters over what the man says himself.

  98. Nahida

    Max*

    And yes, I’m aware that the author is Remi Kanazi in case if you’ll feel the need to point that out later.

    You falsey accused me of being for Obama just because he was black. If you even DARE point out that the author is from Palestine and that’s why you expect me to take this, we’ll know who the racist was.

  99. Max

    You support him because he is physically attractive and not white (although the truth is that he grew up in a white household).

    And perhaps because you think he might really be a Muslim despite pretending to be a Christian.

  100. Max

    By the way Nahida did you know that Obama is related to Dick Chaney?

  101. Azmat

    @ Nahida,

    how can you say Islam is not anti-homosexual?

    last time i checked the Qur’an it clearly condenmed any inclinations towards the same-sex (check the story of prophet Lot).

  102. Alex

    It’s like what Christians say about hating the sin but not the sinner.

  103. Nahida

    @ Nahida,

    how can you say Islam is not anti-homosexual?

    last time i checked the Qur’an it clearly condenmed any inclinations towards the same-sex (check the story of prophet Lot).

    What Alex said. Hate the sin and not the sinner.

    You support him because he is physically attractive and not white (although the truth is that he grew up in a white household).

    And perhaps because you think he might really be a Muslim despite pretending to be a Christian.

    Max, you’re disgusting. I don’t care what race he is. I don’t find him physically attractive–for the love of God I’m almost 17 he must be like 40 or something. And I don’t care who he’s related to, thank you very much. Don’t tell give me reasons for why I support the people I do.

  104. Nahida

    And I don’t think he’s really a Muslim PRETENDING to be a Christian. You’re starting to sound like you need therapy.

  105. Nahida

    But I already knew that when you claimed only “sluts” have to worry about AIDs.

  106. Alex

    Actually I think Obama wants to start his own religion with him as its Prophet/Messiah.

  107. Max

    Sluts and people who live in the Third World.

  108. Samina

    Max and Alex, you both have serious issues!!!!!

    Nahida, ignore them and stop reacting otherwise they will continue talking out of their rear ends as per usual. YOU know what you believe, you don’t need to prove that to anyone else.

    Azmat, Nahida was correct in what she was saying. The Qur’an does talk about abstaining from homoSEXUALITY but does not say to hate someone who is homoSEXUAL. There is a clear difference. Unless of course you can show me I am wrong in which case I will take it all back.

    Nahida, I am shocked at how young you are. I admire your courage to stand up to the likes of Max and Alex. Just ignore them and don’t react. The point of this is to discuss the show and that rarely happens because we get caught up in stupid debates like this.

    The more we egg it on the more they will continue to babble on.

  109. The only problem with this “don’t hate the sinner” thing is it allows them to push forward their agenda without strong opposition. At least that is what happened in the West.

    County law gives special rights to those with ‘gender identity’ issues

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56811

    And since the Democrats are determined to push forward homosexual issues helping them means that you are helping to turn all of America into one big Folsom Street Fair.

  110. Nahida

    Thank you, Samina. =)

  111. Alex

    Matt, thank you so much for posting links to those photos.

    They are very ugly and offensive, but they are indeed what happened at the Folsom Street Fair so we can’t just bury our heads, we just can’t shut our eyes to them. We need to look at them for all their perversion and realize that while today it may be San Francisco tomorrow it will be your home town.

    It is no wonder why “they hate us” but what is puzzling me is why otherwise strong Muslims like Nahida are helping these perverts.

    Do you realize there were children at that so called “fair”?

    Perhaps an episode where a “Folsom Street Fair” like parade happens in Mercy and the response of the Muslim community to it would be quite interesting.

    I bet someday in the all to near future they will allow high school students to go around like that at their schools (well not perhaps the extreme nudity part but the leather and leashes and stuff). They are already promoting “co-ed” bathrooms in California and now I guess Maryland for those who “aren’t quite sure” what their gender is.

  112. Alex

    Muslims say that Allah is just their name for God so if that is the case they should appreciate this song as much as a lot of us do.

    In God We Still Trust

    http://video.yahoo.com/watch/240237/1963421

    (after all we do worship the same God don’t we?)

  113. Matt

    Nahida is cognitive dissonance in action.

  114. Nahida

    How poetric Matt.

  115. Nahida

    You guys remind me of the agenda assailer. There’s one in every high school and I bet I’ll meet one in college.

    The Agenda Assailer has (surprise!) an agenda to push on everyone else. If you’re in, say, a science class you’ll get to hear about how the scientist who discovered some principle was a racist or misogynist and therefore his scholarly work is somehow meaningless. Even though the rest of the class is just there to learn, the Agenda Assailer will attempt to turn every class into a political debate. Here’s an example from a history class:
    quote:
    Professor: Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence.
    AA: How can you even SAY that?!?!?!?! He owned slaves!!!
    Professor: Well, yes. But he still wrote it.
    AA: Well then he’s a hypocrite and we should THROW OUT the Declaration of Independence!!!

  116. After reading this article,I want to go out to see the movie with my boy firend.
    Goodbye and Good Luck.

  117. Sara

    Dispatches – Immigrants: The inconvenient Truth Part 1 of 7

  118. Sara

    Dispatches – Immigrants: The inconvenient Truth Part 2 of 7

  119. Sara

    Dispatches – Immigrants: The Inconvenient Truth Part 3 of 7

  120. Sara

    Dispatches – Immigrants: The Inconvenient Truth Part 4 of 7

  121. Sara

    Dispatches – Immigrants: The Inconvenient Truth Part 5 of 7

  122. Sara

    Dispatches – Immigrants: The Inconvenient Truth Part 6 of 7

  123. Sara

    Dispatches – Immigrants: The Inconvenient Truth Part 7 of 7

  124. Episode 18 has been Online 🙂

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