Episode 5 – The Convert

Synopsis: The mosque has a new white converted member and this leads to much discussion among the populace of Mercy and causes a few problems. 

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What did you think of this episode? How does it compare to the previous episodes?

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143 Comments

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143 responses to “Episode 5 – The Convert

  1. Tom

    I find it interesting that Sarah didn’t have a prayer mat. Isn’t a prayer mat one of the first gifts that new converts get?

  2. fareena

    Why can’t men wear gold or silk?

  3. mustafa

    Yes, Sarah does really seem to be bad at prayer. She wasn’t wearing her clothes properly while praying, she didn’t make wudu in the morning.

  4. ibrahim

    Question from Harold, a programmer in the States:

    “I’m curious why so many muslims are critical of the show. I find the show funny and I think it helps put a more accessible face on Islam, something that is seriously needed in these very trying times. ”

    Answer from Zarqa Nawaz:

    “Dear Harold,

    This show is something very new to the Muslim community. The comedy of the show is also probably most accessible to second-generation Muslims who have grown up in North America. Also, the extreme left and right of the community will not like the show because it is either too Islamic or not Islamic enough. But the majority of the community who are in the centre or the two ends are responding in great numbers about how much they love the show with of course the occasional raising of the eyebrow.

    Of course, there are aspects of the show that even I think should be improved. For example, the relationship between Amaar and Rayyan should not be so flirty. We had a non-Muslim director who isn’t familiar with the norms of behaviour in the community and I am not always able to be present to point this out. Because we are shooting at the same time as we are writing, my duties are split and I cannot be everywhere are the same time. And I also am not writing all the episodes. Tonight’s episode will be about a white convert who is causing problems for the community. Again there are aspects of this episode, if I had more time, I would have adjusted but people may not realize that we were not supposed to go to air until Sept. 2007. A decision was made to launch in Jan. 2007 instead and we lost eight months in our production schedule. We finished shooting on Jan. 3 and had to air the first episode on Jan. 6. Hence it wasn’t possible to correct some issues in post production.

    For example, Sura Asr was recited incorrectly which I pointed out to the producers. But because we needed to go on air so quickly, there was no time to correct the mistake before the show aired. However, after the show aired, we brought the tape back to the editing suites to correct the mistake so in future, the sura will be recited correctly. So some Muslims were very upset by this mistake and felt the show wasn’t being sensitive to the prayer. But I am confident, that Inshallah, as we go forward, the goodwill that the show is generating for both the Muslim and non-Muslim communities, will become evident to everyone. Anyone whose intention is to find fault with the show will always be able to find it. But those are willing to make excuses for our mistakes and be patient with us, will know that our hearts are in the right place.”

  5. CMG

    This was hilarious but they were kind of mean to the convert–so what if he’s a little over the top? Try a little patience with the dude. And it’s funny how Amaar tells Marlin that gossip is a sin while he and everyone else gossip about Marlin throughout the whole show (do I hear hypocrisy?) Nevertheless, really funny episode. Each one gets better than the last.

  6. interesting that apostacy is taken so lightly by an imam.

    and what’s with portraying converts as either psycho or flaky? there doesn’t seem to be such a thing as a “normal” covert, eh?

    i read nawaz’s interview on IOL, and now i understand why there are so many odd things happening in all these episodes — she’s the only muslim on the writing team.

  7. leprechaunah

    I think it’s sad that Yasir and Sara’s sex life has to be discussed in every episode. The subject shouldn’t be a taboo; but honestly, there are many many cleaner ways of making ‘dirty’ jokes . Sanitizing dirty jokes IS actually part of Islamic culture – why isn’t that tactic used if Zarqa wants to sell her show with sex? That way at least younger children can watch the show. I also thought the whole period thing was crude; and that it could have been done another way – such as her dad finding out because she wasn’t praying or touching the Qur’an – yet another way we Muslims can tell if a girl has her period or not.
    What is it that sets us Muslims apart from others? we have modesty. But then again, as Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) said “When you no longer have any shame; go do whatever you want.”
    Zarqa, your show lacks one basic Muslim quality – al-Haya (modesty). That’s why it seems that it’s so normal to discuss the things that you do on the show. Please wake up – it’s not normal; it’s not like us Muslims! Why are you portraying us differently from who we really are?

  8. Isn’t a prayer mat one of the first gifts that new converts get?

    Not necessarily. I’ve always bought my own.

  9. Why can’t men wear gold or silk?

    These are forbidden to men through, I believe, the ahadith. Women, however, may wear either.

  10. Umm Haniyyah

    This episode really disgusted me. I found the convert’s overzealousness amusing, since I’ve known people like that, but things that disgusted me:

    1) That Sarah had to enter into a bet in order to start to pray
    2) That Yasir doesn’t pray and is fine with it – as is the Imam
    3) Lies and deceit on the part of most of the (Muslim) characters
    4)That Sarah’s praying drains her so much as is portrayed as almost impossible to do – when the reality is that tons of Muslims routinely pray five times a day
    5) That Sarah thinks it is fine to get her boss to order her to stop praying and doesn’t make any decent accomodations for prayer at work (e.g. not in her boss’ office)
    6) That Sarah and Yasir are always talking about sex. In Islam intimate relations are just that – you don’t go about filling everyone in on your sex life
    7) Sarah at bingo
    8) That the Muslims couldn’t help Marlin be Muslim in a less in-your-face way and in fact pushed him away
    9) Yes, there are plenty of ‘spiritual shoppers’ but there are plenty of serious converts as well – and anyway conversion to Islam should not be taken lightly. Is there only room in the show for converts like Sarah who are hardly practicing?

    10) Baber and his daughter – he is having serious problems with her – but the show treats these lightly and mostly just makes him seem ridiculous because he would like her to dress modestly, wear hijab and pray – standard things for a Muslim parent to want.

    My daughter is a baby now – if she is like Baber’s daughter as a teen I would feel pretty depressed…

    11) Sarah with her hijab (barely on in the first place) off in the mosque

    Ugggh…

  11. Umm Haniyyah

    Oh, Imam Ammar going off to ogle Halle Berry.
    Uggh.

  12. Correct me if I’m wrong, I’ve had Muslim friends, both convert and born Muslim, and isn’t Sarah’s skirt a bit short, and that moment at the begining was not nice at all, with Sarah’s husband trying to direct her, if you know what I mean. I’m glad some of the questions were answered as to why odd and incongrouous things have been happening on the show. I think it might have been better to have more shows written by the creator of the series just to have things more authentic. I know how film schedules can be. Maybe the kinks will get worked out, I hope so anyway. It’s basically a really good show, and the point that the humor may make more sense to second generation people is a point well taken.

  13. Zaraf

    I can understand what the creator os the show is trying to accomplish, but when you are doing something good which will cause a lot more evil, then you shouldn’t do it. And that is exactly what this program is doing.

    There are a LOT more ways to make things funny without turning them into negative stigmas against Islam. This episode exemplified the whole “fundamentalist muslim” with the way Marlin was acting. If you think about this, it was quite a clever way to achieve negative attitudes towards “practicing” Muslims.

    If you actually think about alot of what Marlin was saying, it was quite correct. Yes, Baber’s daughter should be wearing the hijab. Yes, Fatima shouldn’t be passing off koshur meat as halal. Baber’s daughter’s attitude towards her father and stuff was all inappropriate. However, the way Marlin would deliver this advice was very hostile and negative. He would embarrass the people, and thus became stamped as the “bad guy”. So basically, this just reinforces for the non-muslims that so called “fundamentalists” are all finger-pointing, in-your-face people who go around saying you’re going to hell cause you don’t do everything exactly like them. In the first episode, Baber was shown as this “fundamentalist” character, but now that we see a more inside look of what is going on in his private life, it shows that his family life is just as much, if not more, screwed up than everyone elses.

    And this all just goes back to the whole demonizing the saint. If you pick out faults in the person who seems to be very good or perfect, then you can just sit back and relax, thinking, “Well, Mr. Perfect over there does such and such wrong thing, so I can too.” But as long as you don’t know that, you would feel agitated that you are not doing enough.

    As for humor, they could have made some funny stuff with regards to maybe someone walking in on Sarah praying “properly” and thinking that she was sick or something. Or find her doing wudu and say something like “Why are you washing your feet?” And I think the thing that upset me the most about this episode was the demonizing of the 5 daily prayers. Making it seem like they are impossible to do, when really, they take very little effort at all, when compared to a lot of other things we do. We’ll spend hour after hour at work for some money, or while in school, sitting doing homework and exams for hours, but we can’t spare 5 or 10 minutes to pray? Sad indeed.

    I think I’ve ranted enough now 😛

    Assalamulakum!

  14. CanadianMuslim

    How very, very disappointing. Umm Haniyyah and Zaraf have done a great job pointing out just WHY this episode was so terrible.

    The so-called Muslim characters on this show are a terrible example to non-Muslims and Muslims alike.
    Imagine what the parents of new converts will think of their kids’ choice to accept Islam if they’ve seen this episode!

  15. So basically, this just reinforces for the non-muslims that so called “fundamentalists” are all finger-pointing, in-your-face people who go around saying you’re going to hell cause you don’t do everything exactly like them.

    It does… But don’t forget that the Christians in North America have also been seeing similar “finger-pointing, in-your-face people who go around saying you’re going to hell cause you don’t do everything exactly like them” fundamentalists for the past couple of hundred years. So they will recognize the archetype that the Marlin character represents and say (insha’allah), “Oh, look, they’re not immune to getting those _______ (fundamentalists, whackos, choose your own) too.” Look on the bright side. “Marlin” gets passed back to the Christians, where they can deal with him. 😉

  16. Sean

    Muslim men are not allow to wear gold and silk because, Ali ibn Abu Talib, the cousin of the prophet Mohamed(saw), narrated and recorded in both Sahih muslim and Sahih Albukhary that , the prophet one day went to him, one hand holding silk, one hand holding gold, and said I forbid these two items to the male members of my community. As to why is this, there are interpretations and opinions. But the hadith menstioned is where this ruling is base upon.

  17. Sean

    and by the way, this show is really going down. That stuff about the convert is just ridiculous. I’ve seen many so call,” odd characters” and “losers” in the mosque, everybody try to help them for the sake of God. Yes some of them are converts. They may not be the most sociable people, nor the smartest people, but No one make fun of them or punk them off or nothing, because they know that in the eyes of God we are all equel. That’s one of the most beutiful thing in an Islamic community. I’ve always try to say something positive about the show, but you have to know where to draw the line. In my opinion, the cafe scene is just too ridiculous. I am confident that any sane religious Muslim individuals would never do such things in real life.

  18. I loved the episode, it was hiliarious.

  19. I should probably inform the responders in this thread that I am not Muslim.

    I’d find being forced to wear a headscarf because of the particular dogma your parents selected for you one of the must unreasonable actions imaginable.

  20. Not all Muslims are disciplined enough to pray the daily prayers. I think that although exaggerated at certain parts, this episode does have realism in it.

  21. And I guess, if they cast Marlin as a regular in the show, the story line could have been better in which the Muslim congregation would sit him down and clarify his radical ideas on Islam.

  22. “2) That Yasir doesn’t pray and is fine with it – as is the Imam”

    What is the Imam to do, challenge him to a show down in the Musala? He’s a grown man.. so should the Imam not give him salaams, back bite about him, use him as the topic or every lecture, tell him to get his women in check, call him secular, or the faorite move of certain communities and just shun him and his family?

    When he went to the Imam the Imam made it clear that he could be more encouraging of his wife, and perhaps become a bit more devout himself. The Imam didn’t give him a high 5 and say “yeah, you rock you heritic!”

    “4)That Sarah’s praying drains her so much as is portrayed as almost impossible to do – when the reality is that tons of Muslims routinely pray five times a day”

    While this is very true, about half DONT pray everyday. This is reflected in the almost ghost like status the many masjids of the world take on with the exception of Jummah prayers. Evidently salat (although really over played in this show) is very difficult for many people; this issue transcends being born Muslim or not, we just don’t want to admit it. Verily we must deny all calamities in the ummah indeed….

    “7) Sarah at bingo”

    this is a comedy not a documentary or a autobiography. yes, she is at bingo.. but u don’t point out that the Imam tells them to LEAVE. Interesting how we choose to see what we want to see. Muslims drink, smoke, cheat, lie, steal, gamble, go to clubs, etc.. we don’t have halo’s on our heads. When I see the show I see all the possible bafoonery moments and people attempting to try and fix them before they go to far. I see people from every walk of life with completly different ideas of aqeeda and adab at the end of the day making salat together and not killing each other. How many Imams you know goint to the club or the gambling hall and asking the Muslims to leave? How many communities leaders you know going to all these liqour stores run by Muslims and asking them to shut down, or stop taking their zakat in real life.

    hikma

    hikma

    hikma

    love you all but life is not black and white. with such judgemental (this doesn’t mean except everything under the sun) attidudes and appoarches to the deen, no wonder so many people don’t attend Jumah at all. let alone weekly prayers. Who will be the one to lead back all the gray….?

  23. “Imagine what the parents of new converts will think of their kids’ choice to accept Islam if they’ve seen this episode!”

    They should think (i hope) this wacko came in wacko from the very beginning and on his very own remained a wacko! No one in the masjid promoted wacko concepts. They tried to mellow the poor dude down.

    If a person is already into hating Islam; then no matter what this show does the hate will not change. I think the show is more for the middle of the road, on the fence type people. Those people who haven’t lost all intellegence yet would feel pity for the mercy masjid. It seems they can never catch a break. lol

    BTW: Fatimah didnt try to pass kosher meet off as halal. She told babar to not annouce to the non Muslim costumers that the meat wasn’t pork. If people assume then thats on them, so she hasn’t said anything wrong. People see sausage on a menu and automatically ASSUME its pork cause 99% of the time it is PORK. When the new convert asked if the meat was halal she then told him no it’s kosher which is halal for us it eat. So the over the top convert so quick to judge, with little to no hikma, and cut and paste knowledge made a big deal out of nothing.

  24. Aisha

    Salaam, I really enjoy the show and I think it is funny!
    The first four episodes were very funny but the fifth one was not so funny!
    Praying five times a day is not as difficult as Sarah shows it. Not to mention, Yassir should pray too. Besides, one dose not crawl out of bed and just pray. Muslims wash up first then pray. Prayer dose not deprive anyone from sleep!
    Plus the way they handled Marlin was not appropriate at all. In fact, Muslims would be happy to help out a convert!
    I hope the next episodes are funny and show better view of Muslims!

  25. M

    Salam Everyone,

    Tom: I wasn’t too happy with the prayer ‘rug’ either.
    I understand the creator of this sitcom is breaking new ground by poking fun at us “Muslims.” That is 100% fine with me.
    But in this case I did not feel it was poking fun at Muslims but at the physical aspect of Islamic prayer.
    Overall though, Zarqa Nawaz, is doing a great job. Sure, there will be scenes, episodes that tick off some Muslim viewers. But we have to start somewhere.
    Have you ever seen/heard the Muslim-American comedian, Azhar Usman? He is fantastically funny.

    Salam to All –

  26. M

    Salam to Everyone,

    Zaraf:

    Regarding:

    “I can understand what the creator of the show is trying to accomplish, but when you are doing something good which will cause a lot more evil, then you shouldn’t do it. And that is exactly what this program is doing.”

    I disagree, respectfully,

    Because:

    2:216; …”It may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. God knows but you do not know.”

    Seriously, I’m not intending to sound preachy here. Posts can be so easily misread.

    I really think though, that we need to be more patient and pray for the best from this show. Zarqa Nawaz is doing a great job. Who knows what the future holds?

    Salam to All –

  27. NAJ

    What’s wrong with kosher meat? They are from the Jews (who is considered as People of The Book). Their slaughters are halal for Muslims.

    “This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them.” (al-Maaidah: 5)

  28. Waleed

    i think this episode was one of the best ones ever. and I would request my muslim brothers and sisters to stop being so critical of the show. This show is something to be proud of. Ofcourse, they are things in it which may not be 100% muslim, but so what. It’s a comedy .. meant not to be taken seriously. Things have been overexaggarated on purpose… to make it funny. Why can’t we muslims just laugh at things. Zarqa Nawaz has done an amazing job. God bless her.

  29. FZ

    The remarks here in this forum criticizing the behavior of the characters on the show prove that the convertitis exhibited by Merlin was quite realistic.

    How many of you have ever seen the kinds of programs produced in Muslim countries like Egypt? The characters on Little Mosque on the Prairie look like a bunch of raving fundamentalists compared to any character that would be allowed to be depicted on Egyptian television.

  30. sad Muslim

    I found the previous 4 episodes fun and serving to the purpose of “normalising” the Muslim life not only for the non-Muslims but for the Muslims as well. However, the 5th episode was unbelievable. Being a proper Muslim is not that difficult and that bad. There are so many Muslims observing the rules of the religion and being succesful in their career and personal life.
    After watching it I really felt sorry and disappointed. Please don’t let this show to degrade the already low image of Muslims.

  31. Hi,
    I think that many of us see this as a “show what Muslims are to those who judge Muslims without knowing them”. But I also think that this show should be watched as a fun comedy show, finally a show where we can see Muslims without them being acting as terrorists or whatever. This isn’t a show with the purpose of converting as many non-Muslims to our religion, so it should be taken lightly, not too seriously, since it’s just a fun comedy show.
    Some of you are shocked by how ‘difficult’ praying seemed to be for Sarah and they say that it’s not like that in real life. I agree, it’s not, because many of us are able to pray without it being overwhelming like that, but still, there are many Muslims who find it difficult to pray (lack of motivation for most). There are so many Muslims who aren’t praying because they think it’s difficult and so many Muslims who are praying and find it very easy.
    I was also disapointed in seeing how they made it look, but when I think about it, I realize that it’s only a show, it’s comedy, everything is exagerated, nothing in life is perfect and this show isn’t perfect of course, but I’m still happy to see a show on TV where you can see Muslims. Most people are only watching series like “24” where they see Muslims as being the bad terrorists or whatever, and you almost never see Muslims appearing on TV. This show is about Muslims, not terrorists and it’s broadcasted on National TV, we should be glad that “Islam” is finally not a “taboo” that can’t be shown on TV.
    Be happy people, don’t take it too seriously, it’s just for fun and over time, it will be a show that will, hopefully, help those people who view us all as terrorists and who don’t know what our religion is all about, to finally understand that we’re all just a bunch of people who beleive in something and who are no different from them and will finally remove the ‘terrorist’ label from above our heads.

  32. restoringtide

    I agree that as a Muslim, the show can be difficult to watch at times, but if I wait a moment or two, I find its merits shine like gold. Part of the point of the show is that none of the characters are as holy as they think themselves. I notice that they all tend to follow their own nafs (arabic for “self” i,e. ego, whim, caprice, desire) more than the love of God, i.e. the selfless love that God shows to all his creatures. But they are learning. As we all are.

  33. americanmuslim

    For all the haters out there, I really loved this episode, and the other episodes as well. Sure, things are not perfect, and alot of aspects of the show can be criticized, BUT, you must think about the bigger picture. Many African Americans were not exactly PROUD of their first portrayals on television either, but look at where they are at now. African Americans are some of the most popular movie and television actors and actresses, and have a steady stream of shows about their own subculture on primetime television. SURE, Little Mosque MAY NOT be PERFECT, BUT, inshAllah, it WILL lead way to more opportunities for Muslims in this business.

    Besides, if ya’ll don’t like the show, why not go to school and become a director or a writer and make a better show, and learn from others mistakes. In my opinion, unless, and until Muslims in the West begin branching out of Engineering, Medicine, and Law, we will continue to be those who TALK ALOT BUT DO NOTHING!

  34. jaded

    i thought it was awful, i agree with all of umm haniya’s points

  35. Shammas

    I would like to point out that 24 has been accommadating to Muslims. Its a show about terrorism. Of course there’s going to be Muslim terrorists, because there are many Muslims terrorists. They have had many seasons with non Muslim terrorists. Kiefer Sutherland also ran a PSA urging people watching 24 to keep in mind that Muslims aren’t terrorists. This season, 24 has spent plenty of time dealing with Muslims who aren’t terrorists, a major subplot is while is that Muslims are helping America fight terrorism. We need to stop dumbing everyone down. Americans aren’t stupid and they can process what they watch. I think Little Mosque has show how Muslims are normal people, they can be good people can and they can be a little wacky sometimes. I’m a muslim, tell me you’ve never seen anyone take Islam way too seriously like Marlin. Tell me you’ve never seen people like Sara who are lax. Its supposed to be a comedy, not a “Muslims are amazing people so become a Muslim today PSA.” Give people the credit that they can tell the difference between comedy and reality. Canadians aren’t stupid either.

  36. Shammas

    There are no Muslim actors on the show for one reason, they’re all sitting here complaining about how Islam is being depicted by the someone who is TRYING to make a difference. So give her a chance. No muslims are actors because we all sit here criticizing what they do. Just give them a break.

  37. Zaraf

    Asslamulakum,

    M, regarding your message:

    “I disagree, respectfully,

    Because:

    2:216; …”It may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. God knows but you do not know.”

    Seriously, I’m not intending to sound preachy here. Posts can be so easily misread.

    I really think though, that we need to be more patient and pray for the best from this show. Zarqa Nawaz is doing a great job. Who knows what the future holds?”

    First of all, how are you evening referrencing that Quranic quote to this situation, or my statement? What I am talking about is something that causes more evil than good, and should be avoided.

    For example, you want to give someone some good advice, but you go and tell that person this advice while he/she is infront of their family/friends, and thus, embarrass them. This person then rejects even listening to what you are saying, simply because he/she was offended by the fact that you embarrassed him/her. So therefor, you should NOT give that person the good advice (in that situation), and rather wait until they are alone, or in a better circumstance.

    Like I said, this show had a good intention, but was done and taken in the wrong way. Sure, it is trying to be “funny”, but funny at the expense of ruining the honor and respect of Islam? Depicting Islam in a secular light to “normalize” it to Western civilization? Are we lower than Western civilization that WE need to be normalized to them? I think not.

    Assalamulakum.

  38. Zaraf

    Oh, and btw,

    2:216; …”It may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. God knows but you do not know.”

    A good example of what this refers to IS the 5 daily prayers. They are good for you, but you may not like them. Giving charity is good for you, but you may not like to do it. Etc etc.

    Assalamulakum

  39. M

    Salam to Everyone,

    Zaraf,

    I sincerely believe you misunderstand me. Either that or you are a very sensitive soul, Alhumdulillah.

    I am just saying that in general, I think there is more good to this show than bad. We don’t know what the future holds for such a program.

    Will others follow, maybe dramas, etc. with more Muslim characters of diverse backgrounds (i.e., not all terrorists)?

    I also think we have to keep an open mind when reflecting on reading the Qur’an. You may read a verse and understand it one way and me another.

    This is not forbidden. You and I are not the same.

    Or maybe you were kinda taken aback because I disagreed to your posted…?

    Do you have a degree in Shar’iaa?

    Take a deep breath, little brother.

    And one of the signs before the BIG day is, we will be lead by ignorant scholars….

    Salam to All –

  40. Zaraf

    Asslamulakum,

    “I am just saying that in general, I think there is more good to this show than bad. We don’t know what the future holds for such a program.”

    Ahh, now it makes more sense what it is you are trying to say. And in this statement, yes, I can see that the Quranic verse would apply. However, you are entitled to your opinion, and I would disagree with it. There is nothing wrong with disagree with “opinions”, because after all, that is all they are. Opinions. Even the companions of the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) disagreed on various aspects, but only where there was flexibility in the rulings. Not on basic fundamentals like paying zakat, fasting during ramadan, praying the 5 prayers, etc.

    If you think there is more good than evil in this program, then like I said, you are entitled to that opinion. However, as you already know, I feel there is more harm than benefit in this program.

    You can look at this program in two aspects. The effect it has on muslims, and the effect it has on non-muslims.

    One could argue that it is having a positive impact on non-muslims, and I can see and understand their arguments. This program is “humanizing” muslims as opposed to the media that is “demonizing” muslims.

    I don’t have “as much” of an issue with regards to non-muslims as I do with muslims.

    Many muslims who see this, and let’s say that they are on the same level (in their piety and faith) as some of the characters on this show, then they will most likely become satisfied with where they are standing. They will not feel like they are doing anything wrong. “So what if I don’t pray 5 times a day? Look at Sarah on Little Mosque on the Prairie, she can’t pray 5 times a day either.” “So what if I talk back to my parents? Look at Baber’s daughter.” Everyone has weaknesses, but they shouldn’t be made public, and one reason is because it causes corruption in society.

    “Hide the faults of others, and God will hide your faults.”

    Here is something which sums up pretty much my issues with this show. As some scholars have said:

    “In terms of wealth, look at the people with less than you, so that you are satisfied with what you have. In terms of piety, look at the people above you so that you are not satified.”

    Assalamulakum.

  41. M

    Salam to Everyone,

    Zaraf,

    JAK for your clarifications.

    Salam to All –

  42. I really enjoy reading these posts, they are very interesting; thank you.

    I disagree with many posters saying that this episode and others show the Mercy Muslim community in a less-than-glowing light and that it detracts from the show.

    For example, being a teenage girl, I would LOVE it if American TV shows would show teen girls enjoying classic literature, volunteering, being loyal girlfriends, or drinking tea (in general, girls to whom I can look up). But no–the best we get is Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and the worst comes from everything between nighttime news shows depicting teen prositiution/drug use/eating disorders to sitcoms and dramas where teen girls are snide, cliqueish, vain and hypocritical.

    But I can’t pretend I don’t relate to some of this.

    If all of the characters are edited–Sarah and Yasir sexually discreet, Baber’s daughter more modest and obedient, Amar more hard-lined, and Sarah in general gaining a prayerfully devout personality, hijab-awareness, and pious stamina (and others getting tweaks)–they would be unrecognizable and uninteresting. I think these changes will happen over time, but not all at once. As with all spiritual growth, it comes with maturity, time, and a greater self-awareness. And until then, we should probably just relax and laugh.

    We’d love members of our own demographic displayed all as shining paragons of humanity in the media but it is a false stereotype as well as a breeding ground for hypocrisy (imagine having to conform to the image of perfect characters all the time (and having to own up when you can’t (or not having the guts to own up when you can’t (you see how it gets complicated)))).

    BUT if I were to be nitpicky about characters, I would complain about the Reverend playing computer games and watching Halle Berry movies, but I have no idea what my pastors do on their off-times. But the old proverb never waxes false: “No one is perfect.”

  43. I just want to say that I agree with somewheresunshine and that I’m pleased to see more responses now talking about how the effort should be praised instead of just complaining.

    And to answer Shammas, if he ever reads it, I know 24 is trying not to misjudge Muslims (in the last episode Gredengo even said “we (Russians) will nuke the US and the arabs will take all the blame”, Nadia working for CTU, and many other things..) , I was just giving an example of how Americans (not trying to generalize) perceive Muslims and that on TV that’s how we are depicted most of the time (not always).

  44. Shammas

    Okay. Thanks for clearing that up. I’m sorry if I was being ridiculous. I was just think that we should give non-Muslims more credit, most people realize Ahmed their neighbor is not a terrorist. I agree that Muslims are not depicted well in most television programs. The people here are criticizing the show, saying its not Islamic enough. Be realistic, some people say Baber’s daughter should be more obedient. You do realize it is trying to be funny and as much as you guys hope, he’s not going beat her on national television for choosing not to wear the hijab. Amar is doing the best he can. He is a kid. Speaking of Sara, how can you think she should be written as more Muslim, each one of you knows a Muslim, not necessarily a convert, who is a lot less Muslim than Sara

  45. Shammas

    Oh, I forgot, what is wrong with a reverend playing a computer game about aliens. Maybe under the Taliban there would be trouble, but probably not even there.

  46. Nothing is really wrong with it :), but I posted that while take a procrastination break in reading “The Parson’s Tale” from the Canterbury Tales. We could hardly call playing video games a vice (send me packing to the Ninth Circle, then) but we must consider what we could be doing with the time, serving God, etc. If an angel caught you off guard, would you want him to catch you in divine meditations or Duke Nukem?

    At any rate, I really like the Reverend’s character. He has the role of the mentor-figure to Amar but without the increasingly cliche mysticism of Yoda-like figures.

  47. RB

    another home work for CBC and the creator, mosque should gift a pray mat within every conversion.
    with all due respect, i think the creators needs a mentor, i mean someone from islamic centre or an imam, just someone good at islam shari’a, to make this sitcom perfect.

    but still, i love it…bravo!

    salam to you brothers and sisters

  48. RB

    one more thing…
    i’m 100% agree with shammas
    its a comedy, and look around you or look at my country, indonesia, the most moslem population in the world.some of them wear hijab some dont, some hard lines some a modern moslem, some devout, some still trying to find the right path.
    its a sitcom not documentary, so dont expect the details about islam.

  49. Zaraf

    You can’t just justify it by saying “it’s a comedy, so its ok if its not accurate”. Most people will STILL get a bad impression about Islam, regardless if they know “this is all a joke”. And chances are, most of them won’t feel that its all a big joke, since the jokes are not that blatant. This not like most of the viewers of this show already have a solid understanding of the structure and basis of Islam, and so they are able to distinguish between what is proper, and what is just a farce. I can see a lot of people watching this show, and even though they laugh, they will BELIEVE that this is what Muslims are like.

  50. Umm Haniyyah

    Regarding expecting too much of the characters and show and the show displaying the reality of the community.

    It is precisely because this is a nationally (and internationally via YouTube, etc.) broadcast show that I expect to get more from it than a ‘documentary view’ of how real Muslims really do cheat, lie, gamble and so on.

    Obviously individual Muslims do all of the things that the rest of the population does. But the show is showcasing the Muslim communit(ies) and more importantly Islam to a huge audience.

    While it is obvious that a lot of Muslims watch the show, it is probably safe to assume that an even larger number of non-Muslims are also watching it. Many of these people may know next to nothing about Islam and may think that they are learning while being entertained by the show.

    Further, the show isn’t ‘Meet the Ahmeds’, it’s ‘Little Mosque on the Prairie’, emphasis on the word mosque so it’s clear from the that the show will be dealing with religious life to a large extent.

  51. Umm Haniyyah

    Re: Comments on prayer. Prayer is both difficult and easy.

    Many people do find it hard to ask permission or find time and find space to pray at work and school.

    Making wudu (ablutions) away from work is also a difficulty for some. Especially in winter when the prayers come quickly one after the other.

    Getting up for fajr is hard for a lot of people and does disturb sleep (not everyone can get back to sleep afterwards).

    One huge problem is that prayer is often just done by rote and not mindfully, so besides the benefit of fulfilling a duty people don’t feel that they are getting anything (spiritual) out of it.

    A lot of Muslims are only making a few or one of the prayers daily, it’s true.

    But even with all of those acknowledgements, the way in which the show portrayed Sarah praying was ridiculous.

    There didn’t seem to be any inner dimension to her prayers and they were utterly consuming and overwhelming – when in reality, although many Muslims fall down in terms of doing them, it is not impossible to get all five done and still get on with your day.

  52. Umm Haniyyah

    Re: Kosher meat

    There are differing ruling on whether Muslims can eat Kosher meat.

    The rulings against it come down to these points:

    1) to be considered zabiha halal the name of God is uttered over each animal as it is slaughtered – to be considered Kosher the name of God can be said at the beginning of the slaughtering day

    2) some jurists feel that eating zabiha (Islamically slaughtered meat) is an important part of community identity; so although it is permissible to eat Kosher, it is better to eat zabiha

    3) some fuqaha feel that it is important that the slaughterer be a Muslim

    4) there are stipulations regarding zabiha meat (often not even followed by Muslim suppliers) about how an animal must be treated and what it can eat and so on that may or may not be followed by a Kosher slaughterer

    5) stated rules for which veins in the animals neck must be cut are different.

  53. Umm Haniyyah

    Being forced to wear hijab

    I agree that no one should be forced to wear hijab and I think that the whole conflict between Baber and his daughter is an important one, since it is happening all the time in the community.

    What I dislike about how it was chosen to be shown on the show is that we don’t get the other side of the debate. That is, we don’t see why other than because a family member demands it or it is an unexamined “must” any woman would choose to wear hijab. We may get that story with Rayyan.

    The Baber character is the sort who, in real life to preserve his honor would have forced his daughter to wear hijab – but the character on the show stops short of doing that.

    Taking a step back though, she is a minor living in her parent’s home, so it isn’t ridiculous to expect that he would have some say as to what she wears.

    On the other side of things I am also annoyed that the non-hijabi character, Sarah is so non-practicing.

    She is the only non-hijabi character, so in a sense she is representing Muslim women who choose not to wear the hijab on a daily basis on the show.

    The message of the show seems to be that they aren’t real Muslims. The reality is that there are plenty of Muslim women who are serious about their Islam but who, for example, believe that the Qur’an mandates modesty of dress and behavior but not necessarily the hijab.

    We don’t get any kind of modesty with Sarah.

    In response to other posts, it is possible to have funny sitcoms where the characters are not simply cartoon versions of people.

  54. NAJ

    Re: Kosher meat

    Since I’m not really good with english, I’ll just copy and paste the guidance for Muslims regarding this issue (taken from “Al-Halal wa al-Haram fi al-Islam” by Syaikh Yusuf al-Qaradhawi)

    ————————————————-

    1. Animals Slaughtered for Churches and Christian Festivals

    If one does not hear from a Christian or a Jew that a name other than Allah’s such as that of Jesus or a saint, was mentioned at the time of slaughter, the meat he offers is halal. If, however, he says that a name other than Allah’s has been mentioned, it is haram, according to the opinion of some jurists who argue that it falls under the heading of what has been dedicated to other than Allah. Some others hold the opinion that the food of the People of the Book has been permitted to us by Allah, Who is aware of what they say when slaughtering an animal.

    Someone asked Abu al-Darda whether he could eat the flesh of a lamb, slaughtered for the Church of St. George, which had been given to him. Abu al-Darda answered, “O Allah, may You pardon us! Are they not the People of the Book, whose food is halal for us and ours for them? He then told the person to eat it. (Reported by al-Tabari.)

    Imam Malik was once asked about eating the flesh of animals slaughtered for Christian festivals and churches. He replied, I classify it as makruh but not haram: makruh because I am afraid it may have been dedicated to someone other than Allah but not haram because perhaps, with respect to the People of the Book, the meaning of the phrase, ‘that which has been dedicated to any other than Allah,’ applies only to those animals which they slaughter for the purpose of seeking the pleasure of their deities (This may refer to Jesus, Mary, or to other saints. (Trans.)) and not to eat. As for what they slaughter to eat, it is their food, and Allah says, ‘The food of those who were given the Scripture is permitted to you.’ (This ruling by Imam Malik demonstrates his humility, piety, and caution in religion. He did not rush to the conclusion that it was haram, as some jurists do today but confined himself to stating that it was makruh. As we can see, faced with the problem of reconciling two conflicting general categories, that which is dedicated to anyone other than Allah and the permissibility of the food of the People of the Book, he exercised caution and deliberation.) (5:6 (7))

    2. A Rule: What We Do Not See Should Not Be Probed Into

    It is not required of the Muslim to inquire about what he has not witnessed, i.e., How was the animal killed? Did the manner of slaughter meet the Islamic conditions? Was the name of Allah mentioned while slaughtering or not? If the animal was slaughtered by a Muslim, even if he is ignorant or sinful, or by someone from among the People of the Book, eating it is halal for us.

    We have already narrated a hadith in which it was said to the Prophet (peace be on him): “People bring us meat and we do not know whether they have mentioned the name of Allah over it or not. Shall we eat it or not?” and the Prophet (peace be on him) replied, “Mentionthe name of Allah (over it) and eat.”

    Concerning the application of this hadith, scholars say: This is proof that the actions and practices of people are ordinarily considered to be correct and appropriate, while deviation or error must be proved.

    ————————————————-

    My point is; some scholars are more strict, but there’s also those who are more linient when it comes to Ahl al-Kitab (the Christians and Jews). This is the matter of khilafiyyah; where both sides could be right. If we choose the more strict opinion, it doesn’t mean that everyone has to think or follow the exact way we do it.

    Our beloved Prophet Muhammad p.b.u.h. himself always chose the easier way when facing with two options (refer to hadeeth by Aishah).

  55. Scott

    My counter to the statement by Umm Haniyyah that “Obviously individual Muslims do all of the things that the rest of the population does” – is that it this is not obvious to most non-Muslims in North America.

    Because of the exposure to terrorism by Islamists, the only view that many non-Muslims have of Muslims is that they are fanatical fundamentalists, who divide the world into Muslims and non-Muslims, who feel that men can’t control their sexual urges if they have any sight of a woman, who are obliged to kill a person who tries to convert from Islam to another religion, and that Muslims feel that they have carte blanche to perform any act of violence against people who do or say anything that conflicts with their religious beliefs.

    They don’t have many examples that Muslims are anything other than the above. Two years ago, I was in an airport waiting to board a flight. Off to the side, a man who appeared to be Muslim, opened a mat and started to perform prayers. I wasn’t the only person who wondered whether this guy was praying because it was time for his prayers, or because it was the last time he was ever going to pray.

    By the way, I’m a Christian, and I don’t speak for an entire religion, nor do I believe that this show speaks for Islam. Still, the show helps in depicting Muslims as, at least, being human.

  56. Ali

    Again – the show is NOT about being the perfect muslim. If you think that Yassir and Sarah can get dirty, then you should meet some of MY muslim friends. If you want this show to be realistic, then expect it to have some bad muslims. Sarah has admitted that she is a bad muslim on the show. Yassir doesn’t try to hide from the viewer that he puts his business FIRST. He uses the religion to manipulate the people around him, but, through irony, he admits to the viewer that he doesn’t really care about practice.

  57. Ali

    I just went back up and read some more. To the people who were disgusted by the show:

    These are all REAL things that happen to some Canadian muslims. You are sharing this planet with bad muslims, and this show will portray them too.

    Leprechauna, you do not, by any means, represent all muslims that live in Canada, and not likely a majority either. If the show doesn’t represent you, it may still represent others. But be fair and acknolwedge that, at least sometimes, you do relate to certain scenarios.

    This is a sitcom… it is supposed to be funny. How can you expect a show to be “religiously” correct, depicting what musilms “SHOULD” be doing, and what is “RIGHT”, when real Canadian muslims don’t agree with eachother. Who is right? At least the show is being neutral and not trying to answer that question for us by trying to present itself as being an “accurate” instructional video for muslims.

    If “Little Mosque..” was about one person’s view of what I should be doing as a muslim, then I’d probably ignore it like I ignore those one-sheikh talk-shows on the Abu Dhabi satellite channel.

  58. Ali

    I agree with:

    Sarah’s challenge with prayers wasn’t very believable. It really isn’t that hard to pray 5 times a day. Writing this into the show re-inforces a negative stereotype.

    Whereas other stereotypes were made ironically funny because the average viewer knew they were untrue, prayers are one stereotype that, unfortunately, non-muslims probably believe.

    5 Prayers a day = EASY

  59. Ali

    On the other hand, maybe some non-muslims, or bad muslims, or converts, DO find it as hard to pray as Sarah did. If everyone thought it was easy then they would already be praying regularly. We all know that’s not how it is.

  60. sara

    What an interesting conversation, So many people are talking about God and matters of faith all because they disagree- its a wonderful way God works.

    I read these comments from end to beginning and found that very judgemental hearts were slowly openning,

    The one thing I can say is I laughed so much, I see my own struggles and successes in this show, and I love it.

    I have had wonderful conversations with family and friends because of it and whether they like the show or not, whether a situation or character is realistic or not really doesn’t matter, what matters is the fact that people are talking, and in our talking is the remembrance of God.

  61. Sara

    I believe it is quite remarkable that Sarah is not wearing a headscarf, and her skirt is short as a woman in a disco. New reverts or new Muslims as some like to be classed as, are far more religious than born Muslims, everyone knows this, the character of Sarah is wrong, and unfortunately with all respect the makers and the director have made a massive Error.

  62. Zaraf

    Sara, I believe that Sarah’s actions show that she didn’t become Muslim for the love of Islam, but rather, became Muslim for the love of Yasir.

    Ali, it’s not that we deny that there aren’t “Muslims” in Canada and around the world who are like the ones on the show, or even worse, but the point we’re making is that it is more harmful, than beneficial to put this sort of stuff out in the open.

    For example, I’m sure many Christians might have been offended by the last episode in which that Archdeacon guy comes in and gives a very brutal sermon. They might feel that what the Archdeacon did isn’t an accurate representation of what happens in church sermons, or at the very least, is not the image of Christianity that they wish to project.

    This is the same thing I’m talking about with most of this show with regards to Islam. Showing the prayers being next to impossible to do, open sexual talk, intimate contact in public, flirting, etc etc…these aren’t promoting a positive image of Islam. Rather, they are showing Islam to be “just as screwed up as everyone else”.

    Some might say that this show isn’t about promoting Islam or spreading the message of Islam…its just a comedy. If you listened to some of the interviews with the creator, she herself said that she hopes that through laughter, people can learn and understand Islam better than they already do, since “laughter is the best medicine”. A Muslim’s life revolves around submitting to the will of God, and that includes spreading the message of truth of Islam.

    Also, another issue is that if you look at any issue relating to Muslims, it is rarely attributed to the person, and rather, it is attributed to Islam itself. If an Arab (might not even be Muslim) does something negative, the media says “Islam did this”, or “Muslims did this”…If there is a terrorist attack which people claim Muslims did, then automatically, Islam is to blame.

    When was the last time people blamed Christanity for the holocaust? Or all of the killing that Mousillini (sp?) did. etc etc.

    This is why, when presenting Islam, it is very important to be careful on how it is presented…

  63. Ali

    Zaraf – your comments are very intelligent and I am glad that you are sharing your opinions with the rest of us.

    You are right, the show isn’t good advertisement for Islam as a religion. But, I think it’s great advertisement of Muslims as people. The truth is, “just as screwed up as everyone else” might work in our best interest. Isn’t this what will help non-muslims relate to us?

    So, Zarqa did say that laughter is good medicine, and that she wants people to understand islam better than they do now. Do you not believe that she is successful?

    Remember, Islam wasn’t the first religion. Before people could accept the message of the new religion, they had to go through several other “mixed” or “incomplete” messages, so-to-speak.

    Perhaps Zarqa’s portrayal will ease people into understanding the rest of our religion. It’s much easier to relate to “just as screwed up” than it is to relate to a “holier than thou” image of Islam. This will build trust, and from trust we gain credibility.

    The show is trying to bridge the gap between muslims and non-muslims, not to define Islam and separate it from other faiths. It is near impossible to accomplish both from one show. We are already regarded as “different”, let’s work on being treated equally – let them see our sex-talking, hair-showing, just as messed up as everyone else side so that they can treat us as equals. This will lead to our survival in this society.

    Because of this show, we are learning to ask the right questions.

  64. You are right, the show isn’t good advertisement for Islam as a religion. But, I think it’s great advertisement of Muslims as people.

    You never know about this sort of thing; 9/11 was hardly the “good advertisement” for Islam, yet the number of people reverting to Islam afterwards quadrupled for a short time.

  65. FZ

    This show is about Muslims not Islam. Islam is perfect. Muslims aren’t. I was really interested to see the show’s creator compare it to the Jeffersons, because I had thought the same thing myself. In the long run, we can hope that this show will have the same impact as the Jeffersons in the depiction of Muslims.

    I mean, just look at the discussions here. You’ve got Muslims and non-Muslims having healthy, respectful discussion. Anywhere else on the internet, where the topic is Muslims, you will find nothing but really bigoted talk. If this show can inspire such respectful communication, it is a good thing.

    I have to admit that praying 5 times a day is something I find hard to do, but fasting during Ramadan I find very easy. I think it is because NOT doing something (eating, lying, cheating, etc.) is easier than actively doing something (prayer).

    I’d like to ask those of you who say praying 5 times a day is easy, how do you find Ramadan?

  66. Ali

    I find Ramadhan extremely difficult. I smoke.

  67. Zaraf

    Then may Allah (swt) help you to quit smoking, inshallah 🙂

    I find Ramadan to be quite easy….but I live in Canada, and during Ramadan right now, the days are short, so its not much of a challenge. I’m waiting for the fun we’ll have in a few years when Ramadan comes into the summer months 🙂

  68. FZ

    When it comes in the summer months, consider spending the month in Australia or South Africa or New Zealand!

  69. Jim

    Zaraf, discussing the fact that there really are Muslims around the world who are like the ones on the show is beneficial in that it shows us non-Muslims that you have flaws, just like the rest of us. By not discussing it, even amongst yourselves, you’re just sweeping it under the rug. Once it’s acknowledged that a situation exists, then the real challenge begins.

  70. Zaraf

    Jim, it’s not about “sweeping it under the rug”, but by giving this image of Muslims, non-Muslims tend to automatically associate those ‘flaws” with Islam itself. Islam is perfect, but Muslims are not. If it was left at “Oh look, that Muslim is doing such and such bad thing. He should follow Islam more closely because it probits that”, then there would be no issue. But what tends to happen is “Oh look, that Muslim is doing such and such bad thing. I knew Islam was horrible and evil.”

    Unfortunately, the second scenario is the much more likely one, especially in light of current world events.

  71. ZMama

    I have to agree that this was one of the poorer episodes although I enjoyed all the others before this. As a convert I think it is drawn from a “born-Muslim” stereotype that American converts are problematic people to start with who then become Muslim and go way overboard and get pushy oh, AND are self-hating as Westerners. The constant mentioning of Yasir and Sarah’s sex life IS too much, and when he was “positioning” her for prayer I was really upset. Other than that, I think it’s okay that there are people who are shown to be normal people with flaws. I find it amusing that the people over at Muslim Wake Up claimed that this show is only about the conservative Muslims– I think this episode in particular trumps that assertion.

  72. Yeah, i found the thing at MWU hilarious. It just goes to show you can’t please everyone!

    I was disappointed in this episode, although I have enjoyed the other ones, including the two that have been shown since this one. No one would ever treat a convert this way, even if he was such a big pain. And some of the jokes really were dirty, especially about the “eggs.”

    The difficulty of prayer is definitely exaggerated, but it really is difficult for new people to start praying, especially if they don’t know Arabic. It does take awhile, and a lot of energy.

    Seeing Zarqa Nawaz’s letter really explains a lot. I hope they have more success with future episodes and that she is able to have more input than the director.

  73. Umm Haniyyah said:

    “That Sarah thinks it is fine to get her boss to order her to stop praying and doesn’t make any decent accommodations for prayer at work (e.g. not in her boss’ office).”

    A society shouldn’t have to make such accommodations to the culture of immigrants. The immigrant is supposed to integrate into their new society, not the other way around. I would say finding a space in a building that for all we know is filled would be an unreasonable accommodation.

  74. I really thought that Marlan was going to attempt to blow up the Mosque after he felt rejected by them.

    These Western converts are a greater threat than the foreign Muslims. Especially since they can blend in.

  75. Ali

    The Canadian government brings in immigrants by the boat load with the understanding that they are able to continue their way of life in the Americas.

    The white man didn’t adopt the ways of the natives, but instead brought their own culture, tradition, and religion with them.

    Muslims are doing the same and will continue to do the same. If we are to remain here and pay taxes and contribute to this country treating it as our own, it is very fair that we are accomodated just as the white people were.

    Unfortunately for the conservative-minded, immigrants aren’t really “immigrants” anymore. By this country’s constitution, we are as much a citizen as anyone else. So, as a muslim Canadian CITIZEN, I think my country (Canada) SHOULD in deed provide and accomodate for me in my work place and every where else.

  76. Ali

    Five years ago, I was not able to go to work (financial industry) wearing a beard. Now, I challenge any employer to ask me to shave. Am I harming anyone by having one? Nope.

  77. When I hear someone shout the words “Allahu Akbar” it makes me want to put a bullet between that person’s eyes.

    No offense. I get the same feeling when I hear someone shout “Heil Hitler”.

  78. Steve

    Keep your traditions as long as they don’t interfere with the way people have traditionally lived their lives. The culture that is already here should trump the culture that should be trying to integrate.

    Regarding room for prayer, that could be difficult. If the Muslims are accommodated, how about the Christians, or Wiccans for that matter?

    Reasonable accommodation I have no problem with. If there is a spare room in the place of work that one wants to fix up for prayer and no one has a problem with it then ok, but the employer shouldn’t be forced to provide one.

  79. Bruce

    Because when I hear those words I think of someone spraying some kids with bullets. It gives me the same feeling I get when I hear “Heil Hitler.”

    I am not saying I would act upon this impulse (well not in a normal circumstance), I am just saying that is the impulse I get.

  80. Ali

    It just means “God is Great”, all faiths would agree with it I would think.

    I can understand why it would be associated with violence, and this is an image that we are hoping to change.

    Christians are going through a similar stereotype with priests being associated with child molesters. How would it make a Christian feel if I said that everytime I heard the Lord’s prayer I got an urge to shoot a bullet between the eyes of a priest?

    If the room for prayer is available, it should be made available for all faiths whether wiccan or anything else. Maybe a general purpose prayer room? I wouldn’t expect my employer to build a new facility for me. If it was that important to me to begin with, then I would not take a position that absolutely prevented me from my practice. And, Canada is accomodating this by not allowing employers to force me into a position where I wouldn’t be able to practice. Prayer doesn’t have to be done in a prayer room anyway. I just use the lunch room or my office.

    We have only asked for reasonable accomodations, like being able to take our religious holidays off to spend with our families, or having vegetarian pizza at work functions. Big deal!

  81. Steve

    “Allahu Akbar” has become fighting words for many of us in the West. It is like calling a Black the N word.

    I too think of terrorists using those words as they blow themselves up or perform some other act of death and destruction.

    It makes me angry every time I hear those words. They make me feel hatred towards the person using the words and and mentally it triggers a fight response (I don’t act upon the hostility though).

  82. Steve

    Big deal Ali?

    I have allergies to certain food. But I don’t demand that my employers guarantee that there will be food that I can eat at work functions nor do I demand that the work functions be canceled if my particular food requirements are not met.

    Every time a new immigrant group comes into the country employers should not be forced to accommodate their ways. It is up to the immigrant to adapt their ways to the new society they find themselves in.

  83. Canadian Christian

    It’s a shame that a phrase meaning “God is Great” has taken on such a negative connotation in western society. If I were in a public place, and someone shouted “Allahu Akbar”, I would be running for cover. The blame goes directly on the Islamists for this.

    Because there are several Jews and Muslims in my office, we actually have made a point to accomodate them when we can. We purchased halal and kosher meats to use at our picnic, and there is a room where they (or anyone for that matter) can use to pray, mediate, take five minutes to be by themselves throughout the day. These same workers also cooperate by volunteering to do the on-call work over Christmas and Easter weekends, and others accomodate them during their holidays.

    It’s actually quite refreshing to see everyone just working together without religion being an issue.

  84. Bruce

    When that convert was shouting “Allahu Akbar” the way he was I really wanted someone to bash his head in.

    That is the hostile effect those words have upon many of us in the West. They have become fighting words as surely as if you went to a black neighborhood and shouted the N word.

  85. Steve

    Ali said “It just means ‘God is Great’.”

    Maybe that is what it means to you but to us it means ” We are about to detonate our suitcase nukes”.

    To us it has become like “Heil Hitler” was to us during WWII. It generates a hostile gut response within us.

    They have become fighting words.

  86. Steve

    I wish the show would deal more about terrorism being a real concern instead of making it just a joke.

    Events in Salt Lake City, Seattle, and previously at the University of Oklahoma shows that it is indeed a serious concern.

    Perhaps a show where a terrorist comes to the mosque thinking he can find support but instead they turn him in to Canadian authorities would go a long way in convincing the rest of us that most Canadian Muslims are really on OUR side.

  87. Steve

    Yes, JDsg I want you to die now (my gut response).

    And don’t be surprised if you shouted that in any public public in North America to have a gun shoved in your face by the police.

  88. Canadian Christian

    Amen to that.

    (Even if we don’t exactly agree on the fine points)

  89. Canadian Christian

    Amen to what JDsg was saying, that is.

  90. Steve

    Actually Canadian Christian, why aren’t you ducking for cover?

    By the way, what do you attribute the decline in Christianity in Canada to?

  91. Canadian Christian

    Because in this case, I choose to believe that he is merely stating that God is Great. As to a decline in Christianity, I couldn’t say. Chrisitanity in my family is very firm.

  92. Steve

    Obviously context is important but I am just talking about my gut response. How the words effect me emotionally.

    I surely can rise above my emotions in cases where hostility would be inappropriate. But still the words fill me with rage.

  93. Steve

    I say the decline in Christianity is due to “leaders” like Rev. McGee who will compromise their faith at every opportunity.

  94. But still the words fill me with rage.

    Then you must learn to get over your emotions. The phrase “Allahu akbar” will never die out among Muslims. It is a common, everyday saying. It is part of our prayer. It is a statement of fact. I’ve come across other people on the internet who’ve tried to intimidate Muslims into not saying “Allahu akbar.” That will not work with us. (In fact, it tends to have the reverse effect; we will say “Allahu akbar” more and more often.) So cheer up and repeat after me:

    Allahu akbar!

  95. The situation in Salt Lake wasn’t an act of political terrorism, this was a young man with mental problems. We see a lot of similar behavior out of AMERICAN young people raised in Christian or even non-religious homes. This young man was never seen at the local mosque where the other Bosnians prayed. The other thing is he was socially self isolated to the point the neighbors hardly if ever saw him. I think that situation is more about the ready availability of guns, social isolation and bullying.

    I feel sorry for his innocent victims, and for his family who have to live with his terrible deed the rest of their lives and wonder what they did wrong.

    I as a Christian get tired of hearing how Muslims have to prove themselves in our culture and adapt to our culture. In many ways, Christians of today have gone far away from Christian custom and teaching.
    I could start with how Christian women dress now, and practically are FORCED to dress if they want to get ahead on the job. I could go on to the way finances are arranged, Christianity forbids usury and interest, and we have usury and interest as the basis of our economic lives. Christianity forbids the mistreatment of aliens and nearly all Christian nations have very tough immigration laws, and in nearly every Christian nation, it is illegal aliens who have the worst job status, the worst economic status. Christianity as taught by Jesus abhors war, and yet Europe, Christian Europe, and the United States have pretty much non-stop war.
    So to me that is a decline. Christianity isn’t just about going to church, it can be part of the Christian life, and good things can happen in church, but it isn’t the end of a Christian life any more than the mosque is the only thing in a Muslim’s life.
    We go to worship, what ever faith we hold, 1. to honor God, to worship Him, and 2. to be taught right from wrong, even, maybe especially adults need reminders of what is good. But then we go as is said at the end of the Catholic Mass ‘Go in peace to love and serve the Lord’
    So love and serve what does it mean? It means how we live the daily life.
    I think it’s bad that as a Christian who believes in modest dress, I have to fight for it in a way that no Muslim has to! I have to defend it among other Christians, except for among Middle Eastern Christians and older Balkans Christians who still understand that the Virgin Mary didn’t wear power suits, or short skirts, who understand that the Virgin Mary is the example for women’s conduct and how to live, not Madonna, not Twiggy, not Brooke Shields, :)(I sort of dated myself here!)

    I’m actually really grateful to Muslims for raising these issues in the West, and for not caving in to the more vulgar side of North American-European popular culture. It’s a challenge Christians should appreciate. Instead of resenting Muslims, Christians ought to be seeing how Muslims don’t let how things have been done stop them from doing what they feel is right. Maybe some resentment toward Muslims among some Christians is the result of wishing as Christians we were doing as we should be doing.

  96. Steve

    “we will say “Allahu akbar” more and more often.”

    Well then don’t be surprised if you get into lots of fights then. Because for us “them are fighting words”.

  97. Zaraf

    I find it interesting that Steve has attributed “Allahu akbar” to the negative stigma that he has. During the golden era of Islam, when the Muslims still followed the commands of God properly, “Allahu akbar” was like a battle cry during the wars for the Muslims. In fact, it would sometimes happen that Muslim soldiers would infiltrate enemy camps or forts during the night, go into the middle of them and start yelling out in a loud voice “Allahu akbar!” It would strike such fear in the hearts of the enemies like nothing else.

    So Steve, for you to feel this way about our slogan…you’re not the first…and you won’t be the last.

    But keep in mind this feeling you have towards Allahu Akbar…for when that Day comes, you will be wishing you were among those who said it, and not those who feared/hated it.

  98. Well then don’t be surprised if you get into lots of fights then.

    Where I live, people don’t fear a phrase like “Allahu akbar.” As I said earlier, “Allahu akbar” is a common, everyday phrase. My mother-in-law prolly says it ten-twenty times in the course of the day (and that’s not counting the number of times she says it in salat). Nor does anyone bat an eye when she says it. Why should they? It’s not an offensive phrase. As I mentioned earlier, you’re the one who’s going to have to get used to hearing it, for we won’t stop saying Allahu akbar.

  99. Canadian Christian

    I think it was more the tone and manner in which the character was saying it in the episode, than the fact that it was being said.

  100. Canadian Christian

    Zaraf,

    Do you believe People of the Book have any chance at Heaven. Or are all non Muslims damned?

  101. Steve

    JDsg say it where you live then.

    But if you ever come back to North America remember to us it is as offensive as the N word.

  102. Steve

    JDsg say it where you live then.

    But if you ever come back to North America remember to us it is as offensive as the N word.

  103. Steve

    Sorry.

    I didn’t mean to post it twice.

  104. Steve

    Zaraf I don’t fear your battle cry (thanks for admitting that is what it really is). It just fills me with rage. Just like “Heil Hitler” does.

    And, since you like threating me, then in return I just have one thing to say.

    Hiroshima.

  105. Steve

    JDsg this is why we don’t trust you Muslims.

    You were trying to pass “allahu akbar” off as being just a simple religious expression with no ill meaning behind it.

    But fortunately, Zaraf has revealed the truth about those words. They are indeed a battle cry and therefore fighting words!

  106. Steve

    Our war isn’t against Islam, but it is against many of those who have used Islam to justify their attacks against the West.

    It is like this.

    No, not all Muslims are terrorists but most all terrorists (now I mean, in 2007) are Muslims.

  107. Steve

    JDsg in response to you saying “It’s not an offensive phrase.” You are wrong about that. It has historically been a battle cry so therefore it is offensive for someone like me to hear it as it reminds me of all the violence done in the name of Islam.

    Say it in your Mosques if you must but if you are in North America and you are in a public place and you say it don’t be surprised if you are immediately arrested.

  108. Jay

    What do these six men have in common?

    What links them?

    My point isn’t that all Muslims are terrorists. But please, we can’t be played for fools here.

    Just like “allahu akbar” is actually a battle cry instead of just some religious expression with no harm intended, we just can’t go around thinking that Islam as it currently practiced by some doesn’t have anything to do with terrorism.

    I like what Steve said. Let me say it this way. While it is true that 98 percent of Muslims aren’t terrorists, unfortunately it is also true that 98 percent of terrorists are Muslims.

  109. I guess my perspective is I can remeber when all Slavs were assumed to be Communists, and when a lot of the terrorists were Irish and usually Catholic. It’s not that long ago.
    I can remember when the Afghan mudžhadin were the heroes, the darlings of conservative publications like ‘Newsweek’ and ‘Time’ for what they were doing to the Soviets in Afghanistan. If they hadn’t fought the Soviets there, perhaps American and Canadian boys would have died there fighting the Soviet Union, who knows? The vagaries of politics are really funny, and people get so passionate about them and then it always comes to bit them in the butt! The ‘enemies’ of one era are seldom if ever the ‘enemies’ of the next era.

  110. Bill

    “Newsweek” and “Time” conservative?

    What have you been smoking?

    Again, no one is saying all Muslims are terrorists. But you can’t deny that most of the terrorists that threaten us today are Muslims.

    Please stop using a “strawman” argument (that is a term you learn in debate class meaning that one misrepresents the position of their opponent and then starts criticizing that misrepresentation instead of their opponent’s true position.)

  111. Bill

    Katja I am not as old as you but I am old enough to have seen things change, as they often do.

    But I live in 2007. While I look to history for some perspective, I live in 2007.

    Sure today’s friends might have been yesterday’s enemies and vis versa, but that is the way of things.

    I remember a show about this British Navy captain who was in a war with the Spanish (or was it the French) and allied with the French (or vis versa). Anyway, he does some great deed in the war only to find out that there was some kind of treaty and he now had to undo what he did because now the British was at war with the French (or was it the Spanish I don’t remember the order) and allied with the Spanish (or vis versa).

    You also saw this in the colonies in America. They were at war with the French and allied with the British during the French Indian wars and then allied with the French during the War for Independence.

    That is just the way of things. But today is 2007 and I must see things from a 2007 perspective. And in 2007 most of the terrorists we face are Muslims and now the Russians are our kind of/sort of allies.

    Yeah, that is kind of the reverse of where we saw ourselves in the 1980s. We did what we had to do back then, and hopefully we will do what we need to do now.

  112. Zaraf

    Canadian Christian,
    Yes, I believe that one sect from both Judaism and Christianity will go to Paradise. However, neither of these sects currently exist. Jesus (pbuh) did not appear until the true message sent to Moses (pbuh) was distorted beyond recognition, and Muhammed (pbuh) did not appear until Jesus’ (pbuh) message was distorted beyond recognition.

    All of the original teachings of Moses, Jesus, and Muhammed (and ALL of the prophets, for that matter, peace be upon them all), were the same as what Islam says. God is one, and he has reaffirmed that message over and over again, but people insist on neglecting, and changing it. Islam was their last chance.

    Steve, you need to stop rushing to hasty conclusions.

    “Allahu akbar” was not originally a battle cry, but during the wars, it BECAME a battle cry. The Muslims would say “Allahu akbar” all the time before it ever came into the battle context.

    I live in Canada, and I say Allahu akbar all the time…out loud where people can hear me. But it is usually in the context of something good happening, and I’ll be like “Allahu akbar”. For example, me and my project group (6 of us in the group, and 3 are non-muslim) were all playing pool together. I was able to pull off a very difficult shot, and so I said “Allahu akbar!” No one even blinked an eye at that.

    Steve, I’m sure you know people who feel the same way as you do about it, but the fact remains that wherever Muslims are, they will be saying Allahu Akbar. Whether you like it or not. Oh, and if you really do want to put a bullet between a Muslim’s eyes cause he says Allahu akbar…please go ahead and do so. After all, if he’s really a Muslim, he won’t mind dying that way. We all have to die, so might as well die as a martyr for God.

    I find this whole “terrorist” thing quite interesting. Especially since most of the people that condone these “terrorist” are living in luxury and peace back in America, or Canada, or Europe, etc. They seem to fail to put themselves in the shoes of these so-called “terrorists” and think about, or try to understand why they would be doing what they are doing.

    Imagine this. You’re sitting at home, and soldiers break into your house, kick you and everyone in your home out, give everything you have to “the invading people”, and ship you off into camps.

    Now you want to tell me that in this situation, you should just sit back, and do nothing? You have nothing to fight with, just yourself. You are facing an opponent who has superiority in everything materialistic, and you’ve just been stripped of everything you have. Ask yourself the honest question of “What would you do? Or what would you WANT to do?”

    This scenario is exactly what happened to the Palestinians when the Jews came and created “Israel” and took over everything that belonged to the Muslims. Now, if they fight back, with whatever means that they have, they are labeled “Terrorists”.

    America is and has been invading nation after nation consistently throughout its history. And when someone brings the fight to their own soil, they’re shocked? Its like a bully who goes around beating up little weaklings…and when one of those weaklings manages to punch the bully in the face, the bully’s like “How could you hit me? You TERRORIST! Now I’m going to smack you down even harder! And now I have a reason to beat up all of your friends too!”

    I’m not saying that “terrorism” is ok… I’m not saying that killing innocent women and children, etc is fine and I abhor that, but I’m putting things into perspective.

    Do these so-called terrorists hate America? Probably. Is their hatred justified? Definitely.

  113. Susan

    I don’t know if you are a fan of Star Trek but on Star Trek Deep Space Nine they kind of showed this type of situation. At different times in the show the Federation was at war with the Klingons, the Cardasians, the Romanians, as well as at times being allied with them.

    That is why it is so important to know where the loyalties of naturalized citizens in your country are. In this world alliances can shift quite quickly. And no two countries ever have exactly the same interests. If one decides to become a naturalized citizen he or she needs to forsake the old country and give totally allegiances to the new one. When it comes to citizenship there is no half way, no hyphens. Either you are loyal to the country of your citizenship or not.

  114. Steve

    As world powers go we have been quite tame in invading countries.

    But apart from that, you have proven you are my enemy. In the end that is all that matters to me. You support the killing of me, my friends, and my family so obviously I can’t support you regardless of how justified you might think your reasons are.

    Don’t think we won’t die for our beliefs as you do. One of our greatest patriots once said “I regret I only have one life to give to my country”. During the battle of Midway, a Japanese Admiral watching our pilots fight said “They die like samurai, these Americans.” That is the greatest compliment a Japanese officer could give.

    So, yeah we will die for our beliefs. But we much rather have the other guy die for his. You might have a love for death, but we have a much greater love for killing.

  115. Steve

    Israel has been willing to give the Palestinians their own land, but in return they have only been met with violence.

    Palestinians know not of peace. They know no other way but violence.

  116. Zaraf

    “Israel has been willing to give the Palestinians their own land, but in return they have only been met with violence.”

    Hahaha! That made my day. “We’ve taken everything that was yours, but how about we give you this land over there?”

    You can’t justify invading and stealing something of someone’s by just offering them something else, which is of lesser value. Of course they aren’t going to accept that and continue to fight against it. They want what was rightfully theirs. Pain and simple.

    You know, I find it quite ironic about what you said. “I regret I only have one life to give to my country.” My question to that patriot is, “What will your country do for you once you are dead?”

    Ok, so your country will put a flag on your coffin and give you some kind of royal burial. Great! Just what I’ve always wanted. But is your country going to intercede for you on the Day of Judgment? Is your country going to stand between you and God’s wrath?

    Your country is nothing more than a group of people. They can do no more for you after you are dead than anyone else can. Only God can help you once you are dead. So then you tell me, who is it worth dying for? Your country? Or for God?

    The greatest Muslim general that ever existed was Khalid ibn Waleed. He never lost a battle. Not before becoming a Muslim, and not after he became a Muslim. When he would be facing the enemy, he would tell them “Realize that you are facing opponents who love to die as much as you love to live.” The true Muslims are willing to lay down their life in the path of God. They know the reward that awaits them,and they are anxious for it.

    What reward would those who die for their country gain? Being immortalized in poetry or history texts, or maybe even a statue? But what will those things do for YOU while you are being tormented in your grave?

    In the end, soldiers have to delude themselves into thinking that if they die fighting for their country, they accomplished something. But most of them eventually realize that this is a false sense of security. Why do you think American soldiers are so much less willing to lay down their lives than the “mujahideen”? The mujahideen know and believe in what awaits them. I’d pick martyrdom in Islam over a ceremonial burial any day.

    You see, for a Muslim warrior, fighting is a win-win situation. If you live, you win. If you die, you’re a martyr, and you win.

    In the battle of Uhud, the pagans had routed the Muslims, and started desecrating the bodies of those Muslims who had died. They then said to the Muslims “You see? You win one battle, and then we win one battle. We are equal!” Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) responded with “Don’t think that we are equal in this. Our dead are in Paradise, while your dead are in Hellfire.”

    I have no doubt that you won’t die fighting for your beliefs. You are just less likely to die for them than us 🙂 Because we WANT to die for them. Many Muslims pray that God chooses them for martyrdom 🙂

    Oh, and personally, I wouldn’t take “he dies like a samurai” as a compliment. Sure, you might “die like a man”, but what did you die for? Some pagan gods? your ancestors? Your country? All things that cannot benefit you. The only compliment I would accept like this would be “he dies like a mujahideen” 🙂

    Btw Steve, you really need to slow down the speed of your conclusions. I never said I supported the killing of Americans, or anyone else. What I said was that I can understand the justification some might have. Does that mean that I support those actions? Not necessarily. I can just think from within their shoes and have a more fluid understanding than someone like yourself.

    Oh, and quite tame in invading countries? Haha, maybe you should brush up on your American history. You’ll be hard pressed to find even a single year America wasn’t attacking/fighting against SOMEONE. Whether its the First Nations of North America (eg. Cowboys vs. Indians), or European nations (WWI, WWII), or Communism, or African nations, etc etc.

    But you ARE correct with one statement. You and me ARE enemies. Unless of course you were to become a Muslim. Then we would be closer than brothers. But the fact remains, that if it came down to America declaring war on Muslims and the imprisonment/persecuting of Muslims (kind of like what happened to Jews during WWII), then the general populace would be involved in this, and from your statements, I can assume you would probably be among the head of the group. But YOU can assume I will be among the head willing to fight to the death 🙂

    “You might have a love for death, but we have a much greater love for killing.”

    And soon enough you shall realize the folly of this 🙂

  117. Zaraf

    Haha, but that’s just the point. You guys WANT to live in this world. You are satisfied with this world. For us, we don’t live for this world. Too bad for you, but you will eventually leave this world you cherish so much. Lucky for us, we’ll get to stay where we want to go for eternity.

    Earth is the paradise for the disblievers.
    But Paradise (junna) is the ever-lasting abode for the believers.

  118. Canadian Christian

    Just as much as you say, know, and believe that you are going there, so do we.

  119. Burt

    The CBC would deny that Muslims like you live in Canada, Zaraf.

    Thank you for proving them wrong.

  120. Alex

    Zaraf has proven that “Allahu Akbar” is an offensive saying given the times we live in. They are a battle cry and therefore they are fighting words.

    Muslims should not be surprised if those words are met with hostility if said in a public place.

  121. Zaraf

    Burt, because the vast majority of Muslims don’t think like this, that is the very reason the Muslim world is in the slums. If you look around the world, too many Muslims are chasing after this life and materialism than chasing after the next life, and eternal bliss. I’m not saying I’m a perfect Muslims…far from it. There are many things I am lacking in, but in terms of standing up for what I believe, I will do it to the last breath.

    Steve, I’m glad to hear that Americans feel that they are fighting for God when they are fighting for their country. That is more respectable to me. However, we are still unmatched in our desire for the after life. You can have this life, for all I care. But I want the next.

    Also, you misunderstand something here. Its not that Muslims don’t love life and wish to preserve life. We very much want to. However, we do not fear death, and realize it will approach us, just as it comes to everyone. If there are times of peace, we live in this world, working for the hereafter, but in times of conflict, we lay down our lives.

    Simply put, we also see this life, our bodies, and the bounties and blessings God has bestowed upon us as gifts and favors, but we are not (or at least should not) prefer these materialistic things over the commands of God.

    Muslims also believe that our time of death is written before we are even born…when we are still in the womb. So when you die, regardless of which side you are on, it will happen. And its funny…from the tone I deduce of your writing, it seems that you are saying that NOT dying for your beliefs is superior. Where as, I would say the opposite. Muslims who used to fight jihad would call the martyrs “lucky” that they were chosen on that day, and wish to be chosen later.

    Until you can fully understand a Muslim’s mindset, you won’t be able to understand things like Muslims fighting against crazy odds, fighting to the death, suicide bombing, etc. Its quite fascinating.

  122. Zaraf

    Alex, they are offensive words only during times of war. So therefore, if you take offense now, then I suggest you think about how you really feel, and if living in peace is really what you want. Or maybe you just want the eradication of Muslims? 🙂

  123. Jake

    This discussion has become what we in Canada call a pecker-waving contest. Never accomplishes much.

    The militant Christians in the United States and the militant Muslims around the world think of themselves as totally different from one another. But to those of us who live among pluralistic, tolerant people, they seem to grow more and more similar every year.

    At my company, we have every faith imaginable. And athiests. And somehow we all get along and make room for each other. The muslims have a place to pray; we have halal and kosher options at company events, and vegetarian option for the Hindus and other vegetarians, lots of beer for the drinkers and non-alcoholic options for those of us who choose not to. (We do make the smokers go outside, though.) Same-sex spouses are as welcome as opposite-sex spouses. And somehow we manage to produce good products together and have a great time doing it.

    Since we all have something to shout here, I’ll go with Toronto’s motto:

    Diversity our Strength!

  124. Zaraf, Steve and Alex–you are all embarassing me, as an American and a student wanting to study in Canada. You make me want to move to Tibet and become a Buddhist.

    None of you speak for your whole group. None of you can say who is going to Heaven/Junna (pretty sure that one is still up to the Boss). None of you are suicide bombers or nuclear weapons-wielders. After you log off tonight you will probably play with your pets, watch TV or go to sleep, having accomplished NOTHING by spreading silliness and ignorance.

    Go drink some tea and give the boards some rest.

  125. Steve

    Americans don’t drink tea.

    And no Zaraf “living in peace” is not really what we want. To us life is not so precious, or peace so dear, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery.

  126. Zaraf

    But…but…this is sooo much fun! lol

    But seriously, I wasn’t speaking for any whole group, but rather, stating my view on the world and everything else I happened to mention. A view which is shared by most Muslims who actually know what it means to be Muslim, and don’t just use it as an identity.

    I don’t remember ever saying that so and so is going to Hell, or Heaven, etc. Except in a quote, but those weren’t my words. As for me when I log off, I’m a chemical engineering working on a project right now, and I just come on here every now and then to see what’s happening 🙂 lol

    “…having accomplished NOTHING by spreading silliness and ignorance.”

    Spreading silliness and ignorance? Hardly. I am simply clarifying an issue which some people seem to have a misunderstanding about. Whether they accept it, or reject it, that is not my concern. But I did my duty. If people have more questions or whatever, I’m happy to answer them.

  127. Alan

    I believe that Zaraf is being quite clear.

    I wish more Muslims would be as honest.

  128. Zaraf

    Ahh thanks Alan. We need more people who think about things like this instead of just digesting whatever the media spits at them.

    Steve, you gotta go and do stand up comedy. I love reading you replies. Hahaha!

    Just to clarify, no one is killing any Americans right now for their beliefs…at least none that I know of or on a large scale.

    “You might love dying but we love killing much more than you love dying.”

    LOL, that just makes you sound bloodthirsty now. Ease up on the trigger there, Sheriff 🙂

  129. Luke

    Katja,

    Talovici, Bosnia-Herzegovina (AHN) – The body of 18-year-old gunman, Sulejmen Talovic, who died in a police standoff after he opened a random fire killing five people in a Utah shopping mall, was buried Saturday in his native village in eastern Bosnia.

    Several hundred people gathered at a nearby cemetery for Sulejmen Talovic’s open-casket funeral.

    He was given a Martyrs funeral.He was given a respectful Muslim burial.

    Meanwhile back in Salt Lake City, Police is still wondering “why he did it”.

    It reminds me of this.

  130. Eliot

    In Zaraf’s quote:

    “You see, for a Muslim warrior, fighting is a win-win situation. If you live, you win. If you die, you’re a martyr, and you win.”

    It’s only a win-win, if what Zaraf believes, is really the truth (which I’m sure Zaraf believes it is).

  131. Max

    I am sure that Zaraf does believe that it is the truth.

    See the CBC would deny that such people exist at least in Canada. I am not saying that all Muslims are terrorists but I am saying that Muslim terrorists do exist in Western countries and they can cause harm.

    For the West to survive we must understand that the threat is real. Denying the obvious is not only silly, but in the end quite suicidal.

    What do these men have in common? What links them? And why did Sulejmen Talovic do what he did? Law enforcement might pretend not to know but their denial of the obvious just makes them look silly and the West more vulnerable to attack.

  132. Zaraf

    Luke, being given a funeral of a specific nature doesn’t dictate what position God has granted him. If he was in the wrong and started murdering people for no reason, he will be judged for that. But remember, that there are always two sides of the story, and you can’t always trust the media.

    “See the CBC would deny that such people exist at least in Canada. I am not saying that all Muslims are terrorists but I am saying that Muslim terrorists do exist in Western countries and they can cause harm.”

    So Max, are you saying that I’m a terrorist? If that is the case, you are gravely mistaken. I am no terrorist. If you have to use a word to describe me, it would be patriotic. But not patriotic in the sense of a country (as the word means), but patriotic towards God, and willing to sacrifice everything for His sake. Its sad that you don’t find too many people like that in the world today. And even I don’t sacrifice as much as I know I should.

  133. This has got to be the worst episode in the entire series. Having said that, I think the rest of the episodes did a good job of being informative and funny at the same time.

    Here is what I found Islamic ally inaccurate:

    1-We don’t just snap out of our prayer if somebody talks to us, Boss or no Boss, unless I’m threatened with physical harm, I don’t interrupt my prayer for nothing. I assume this is the position of most Muslims when standing before Allah, but I could be wrong, I have never been to the west and haven’t seen Muslims living in the west.

    2-Praying five times is not a physical burden, but a spiritual burden of interrupting your life 5 times a day to remember God and your place on this universe.

    3-From my experience, converts are stricter Muslims because they don’t take Islam for granted. I have always found meeting my new Muslim brothers and sisters good for my Islam and the way it should be practiced, not the other way around. This episode portrayed converts in what we can call ( A turn off ). They are not, they are Islam’s freshest breath of air, full of possibility and potential.

    4-Again, Muslims, feigning decadence to scare away a new Muslim is unheard of, I have never heard of something like this, ever, and I’ve been around converts all my life. So this was not really based on reality.

    5-Yes, some new converts can be a handful, but some existing Muslims can be a handful too. So let’s not stigmatize converts or stereotype them as extremists.

    Well apart from that, the episode was sometimes funny, but hey, you can’t be consistently good all the time. I enjoyed the other ones immensely and saw them all in one day. I will get the DVD if it ever comes out.

  134. Max

    Also, didn’t anyone see a problem with the Iman going to see a movie with Halle Berry in it?

    For the record here are all the movies Halle Berry has appeared in.

    http://imdb.com/name/nm0000932/

    Perhaps they saw “the X-Men”. That wasn’t too bad. That would have been ok for two religious leaders to see.

    I guess I just was remembering her roles from the James Bond Movie “Die Another Day”, Monster’s Ball, and Swordfish.

  135. Lucy

    Zaraf is a scary person. This type of person should be shown on the show as it’s more typical.

    Islam seems ok with killing innocent people. I doubt that’s getting you to paradise. I’m sure those nuts who killed the young children in the Russian school a few years ago are not in paradise. God does not condone killing innocent people.

    Thank goodness I’m a Christian!! Why anyone would want to be a Muslim is beyond me especially after reading Zaraf’s comments. Just recomfirms for me that nutty element in Islam. Islam is not “perfect” if it condones such nutty ideas as killing people. Thankfully Christianity is about love and forgiveness…something far more perfect than what Islam stands for.

    Zaraf I prayer you find God before it’s too late. May Jesus save you!

  136. John

    Hey Lucy,

    Not to burst your bubble or anything, but Christianity is not as sweet and cuddly as you’re trying to make it. Better learn your history, people used that love and forgiveness to kill tens of millions and persecute hundreds of millions. Did you forget the crusades, inquisition, christianization of the colonies, Americas etc. Anyway, don’t want to get on a debate here about who’s better than whom, but think before you post such comments and remember that no religion will legitimize such acts or it would not last long. Christianity and Islam have lasted for 2000 and 1400 years, respectively. Do you really think more then 1 billion (thats right with a “B”) will believe in this religion if you were allowed to kill innocents? If you really think that , then you are lacking not only knowledge but common sense too.

    It’s better to question your knowledge of your own religion first, than pass judgment on others.

    Take care.

  137. Lucy

    Hi John
    Christians are the ones blowing up airplanes and flying them into buildings. Think what you want. When Sharia law is forced on us Canadians maybe then the “liberals” here will wake up but it’ll be too late.

    I’ll accept their lifestyle when they in their countries grant Christians to practice their religion in peace without threat of being killed.

  138. Farah

    I’ve been to Saudi Arabia and I’ve seen two English women shopping happily in one of the malls without covering their hair, just their bodies to respect the Islamic society. Non-muslims are treated good in Islamic countries, actually the police gaurd the non-muslims more than the muslims, even though the muslims are even threatened to be killed by the terrorists.

    So there. Christians are treated well in Islamic countries.

  139. James

    DON’T CLICK ON THE LINKS IN THE POST ABOVE.

    IT LEADS TO PORN SITES!!!!

  140. Zaraf

    Lucy, how about you show me where I said that Islam allows the killing of innocent people, and then you wouldn’t sound like you have no brain.

    I spoke of fighting for God, and and even mentioned some possible justifications of what some people call “terrorism”….but never did I say that “Islam allows the killing of innocents”.

    How about you read what I said, rather than reading what you wanted me to say.

    Oh, and I love Jesus. More than you, actually. And I love him for being a prophet of God and one of the greatest humans to ever walk this earth. Oh, and I don’t blasphemously say that he is divine.

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