Season 4 – Episode 13 – The Letter

Synopsis:Amaar mistakenly opens and reads a very personal letter addressed to Thorne and then tries to return it without letting the Reverend know he read it. Meanwhile, a famous pop psychologist (guest star Andrea Martin) turns Mercy upside down with her searing analysis of everyone she meets.

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

Videos courtesy of Mydien

What did you think of this episode? How does it compare to the previous episode? Are there any topics from the episode that you want to discuss?

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452 Comments

Filed under Season 4 - Episode 13

452 responses to “Season 4 – Episode 13 – The Letter

  1. Nahida

    Finally, a good episode; I actually laughed a couple of times.

    I loved the part when the letter was in Thorne’s coffee and they were both trying to get it. I wonder how much they had to practice all the movements. It was hilarious.

    Amaar and Rayyaan should have just told him Amaar accidentally opened it ’cause he thought it was for him from the very beginning.

    She runs out of the room when Thorne thinks she was talking about her and Amaar. =/ Goodness, I might have done the same. Once your chastity becomes questionable it’s like you can’t take it back with the mentality of the people around you… It’s quite tragic how a reputation can be scratched by something that was never true even when people know it wasn’t.

    I wonder why Thorne came to that conclusion though. Why would he think that if they had committed such a sin they would come to HIM? I mean, I’d be okay talking to a reverend about my problems… just not Thorne in particular.

  2. Steve

    I wonder why Thorne came to that conclusion though. Why would he think that if they had committed such a sin they would come to HIM?

    Well he did seem surprised that they came to him but to him that is what they seemed to have done. He probably thought that they had no where else to turn. And indeed them going on about “Sins of the Flesh” it was the the most logical assumption to think they were talking about themselves having a sexual relationship. After all why would Thorne think they were talking about him after all he hadn’t committed a Sin of the Flesh.

    When Amaar first opened up the letter, I thought “Oh, no they are going to exploit another stereotype about Christian Leaders”. You know the one that goes that even thought they are so Holier than Thou and go around judging others, in reality they are probably the biggest perverts of all if we knew all the secrets they hid.

    Fortunately they didn’t go that way. At worse Thorne comes from a scummy family situation which he has no control over. It must have been devastating for him. All his life he lived with a certain perception of his family which of course he sees as an extension of himself. He has a very proper father, and a oh, so proper mother. But then one day he finds out that no, what he believed about his family (and in extension himself) was a total lie. The guy he thought was his uncle was really his father and his oh so proper mother is really a slut who had sex with her husband’s brother.

    That must have devastated him to the core of his being. I am surprised it didn’t cause more of a breakdown for him. Perhaps he is just good at hiding it or perhaps his religion does give him a certain amount of strength and comfort.

    This weakness on Thorne’s part does seem to humanize him a bit. It makes us pity him somewhat.

  3. Mo

    If Rev. Thorne is only a one season character perhaps that’s how they get him out of the show.

    Perhaps, unable stand the burden of his family disgrace any longer he goes and kills his mother and/or his uncle (bio dad) and himself.

    This would be a good way to show that “Honor Killings” don’t only happen in Islamic societies but even in Western societies.

  4. Mo

    Boy when all of us was thinking “That Rev. Thorne – what a bastard” We didn’t know how right we were!

    Here is what the Christian Bible says about Rev. Thorne’s situation.

    Numbers 14:18

    He does not excuse the guilty. He lays the sins of the parents upon their children; the entire family is affected–even children in the third and fourth generations

    Just think what would happen if Mrs Wispinski would to find out that their beloved Reverend was a Bastard. If he isn’t even fit to be a Reverend in Mercy, there would be nowhere that he could find work as a reverend if his secret is revealed to the wider community.

    Perhaps discovery of this secret is what will drive him into this murder/suicide.

  5. Ted

    It would definitely make for sort of a cliffhanger type ending of the season.

    Amaar goes into Rev Thorne’s office mad about something he has done. Rev Thorne has his chair turned away from Amaar and seems to be ignoring him which of course makes Amaar even angrier.

    Amaar forcefully turns the chair around so that Rev Thorne faces him. Pills spill onto the floor and Rev Thorne is slumped in the chair.

    He is dead. Suicide.

  6. Steve

    I am sure they writers would love the ironic point of it all.

    In a town full of Muslims it’s the Anglican Rev. who commits suicide.

    Or, if as Mo would have it where Rev Thorne kills his mom and bio dad then of course the ironic point would be in a town full of Muslims it was the Anglican Pastor who turned out to be the suicide killer.

  7. Steve

    By the way, what I really found interesting was how Racist they made Baber in this episode.

    I mean you always kind of assumed he was given what his character was supposed to be. But he never quite came out and displayed any of it. Until this episode.

    I mean sure he always talked against “the Infidel” but that never really seemed that bad. By the way being called an infidel has never bothered me.

    But when he said something so stereotypically racist against the Jews it seemed to take things to another level. And then what he said about white people.

    And then you had Fred and what he said about how he wished he could make everyone white. I guess that wasn’t too bad because he didn’t say he didn’t like non whites, just that he would prefer that they were white. Still it was an emphasis on race that before this season we haven’t seen.

    Before it was just Fred not liking Muslims because they were Muslims. And it really didn’t seem like he didn’t not like them either. It just seemed like it was something he just did for his show.

    And Baber, yeah he didn’t like “the Infidel” meaning anyone who wasn’t Muslim. But before it was always just because they weren’t Muslim and not because they were something else.

    But what he said this episode was clearly racist. I find it interesting that they have taken this turn with Baber.

    Want to bet that Baber’s uncle is a terrorist or perhaps not “a terrorist” in one who does the deed but affiliated with terrorists and gives them support.

    Yeah, we know Baber himself isn’t a terrorist but shouldn’t the government who of course wouldn’t know Baber as well as we do, be concerned about a guy who’s uncle has terrorist sympathies and/or affiliations.

  8. Ted

    Wow. I think we have some season ending cliffhangers building up here.

    1) Rev Thorne kills himself and perhaps his parents.

    2) Baber is arrested on suspicion of terroristic activity after receiving an email from his uncle.

    3) Yasir comes home with a new wife which angers Sarah.

  9. Ted

    Season 4 – Episode 18– Sins of the Uncle.

    Rayyan’s Uncle (Yasir’s Brother) dies and per family tradition Yasir marries his brother’s wife.

    Sarah: You MARRIED her?

    Yasir: Yeh, yeh, but the marriage is only recognized back in the country I come from. Here you are my one and only.

    Sarah: but she is coming to live with us.

    Yasir: But in a different room. She won’t be in our bedroom. There you will be my one and only…

    Sarah: You didn’t have sex with her?

    Yasir: Of course not. And I never will. I promise I only married her to please mother and it is really only a marriage in name only.

    Meanwhile, Rev Thorne glances at Baber’s laptop and sees an email from Baber’s uncle that Thorne forwards to CSIS.

    Also, Rev Throne’s mother comes to town with his uncle which makes him very angry. Only Amaar and Rayyan knows why.

    Special guest star Samantha Bee comes to town and arrests Baber. Indeed his uncle’s email was suspicious.

    Amaar rushes into Thorne’s office inflamed with anger over what Thorne did to Baber. He gets only angrier as Thorne seems to ignore him. Amaar turns the chair around to find out that Thorne is dead. Rayyan comes into the room at that moment, she too having heard about how Thorne has caused Baber to get arrested.

    Rayyan: What’s wrong with Throne, Amaar?

    Amaar: I think he’s dead.

    Season ends. It’s only at the beginning of the next season that we learn that Throne had killed his Mother and uncle (bio dad) at his home before going to the church and killing himself.

  10. Ted

    Season 5 Episode 1 Note From a Friend.

    As season five opens the whole community is still pretty shocked over the whole Rev Thorne affair with the Mercy Anglicans wanting to drop him like a hot potato. Which brings up the uncomfortable issue of his funeral as of course few people want to attend it, except Amaar and Rayyan who kind of left with being the only ones who would even consider having one for him.

    Amaar even feels more obligated when while in office working on his defense for Baber he finds a note that Rev. Thorne must have written right before killing himself thanking Amaar for “being the closest thing to a friend he had ever had”.

    So, on top of preparing for Baber’s defense he has to prepare a funeral for a guy as he tells Rayyan “I literally despised”.

    Meanwhile Sarah is wearing out her welcome at the Mayor’s house still mad at Yasir for coming home from his mother’s with a new wife.

    Anyway, so the funeral is held and ironically mostly it’s the Muslims who attend for as I said earlier the Anglicans won’t even mention the guy’s name. Even Fatima is there despite what she said about Thorne earlier in the episode. The only non Muslims there are Joe and Fred (though he tries to slip in unnoticed half way into it). Amaar in his eloquence diplomatically says stuff about Thorne and even admits that he will miss him.

    After the funeral Amaar still fells guilty about “not being a better friend for Thorne.” He then has a vision of Thorne. Not a true vision but you know that device often used in television where a dead character talks to a live one in which we aren’t supposed to think that the dead character’s spirit is actually talking to the live character but only that the vision is what the live character thinks the dead one would have said. Kind of like the whole thing they did in “Due South” with Fraser’s father.

    Anyway “Thorne” tells Amaar that the only reason he put the note there was because he knew it would consume Amaar with guilt and so it was like the last trick he planned on him. This kind of brings closure to Amaar who smiles as Thorne “fades away” and in walks Rev McGee.

    • Ted

      Fred (on the air): Yes friends, as hard as it is to believe our own Mercy Reverend Thr.., well, Reverend “He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named” has perpetrated a grisly murder-suicide. I guess if you hang around those Muslims long enough you start thinking, then acting like them… These Muslims are dangerous indeed.

      Fatima (at her cafe turning off the radio). I don’t believe it. A Christian commits a crime and somehow it’s still our fault. Well after what he did to Baber I say this is poetic justice indeed and I am glad he is burning in hell…

    • Ted

      This kind of brings closure to Amaar who smiles as Thorne “fades away” and in walks Rev McGee.

      Or instead of “fading away” he could go up in a puff of smoke.

  11. Ted

    Mrs. Wispinski “You know I never liked that man, I never trusted that man from the moment he darkened the halls of our church”. (Referring to Thorne even though as we know right now she is one of his greatest fans). Just a way for the writers to show how phony and hypocritical Anglicans are.

  12. Ted

    Rayyan: What’s wrong with Throne, Amaar?

    Amaar: I think he’s dead.

    Actually it should be the other way around.

    Rayyan still rushes in right after Amaar finds Thorne but even though it is obvious that he’s dead, welll Amaar is kind of in shock and he says…

    Amaar: What’s wrong with Thorne?

    Rayyan goes over to Thorne’s body and checks his pulse.

    Rayyan: He’s dead, Amaar. (since she is a doctor she can’t say “I think”).

  13. Steve

    Rayyan (to Yasir) You married my Aunt?

  14. Steve

    Perhaps it said in his brother’s will that to get some money Yasir would have to marry his wife.

    That would put the blame sort of kind of on the uncle.

    But then the family tradition/wanting to please mother angle is good too.

  15. Susan

    I have a question about one of the characters.

    Where’s Layla?

    I mean it has to be something with the actress doesn’t it? Some scheduling conflict? Perhaps she doesn’t want her acting career to get in the way of her education is that it?

    Too bad, because she has been my favorite character in this show.

  16. Susan

    LOL,

    Wow, you know a show is in trouble when the “Fan Fiction” is actually better than the actual episodes.

    It seems so easy for people to write this stuff I don’t know how the actual writers can go so wrong.

    They should have a contest “Write your own LMOTP episode with the prize being that the episode actually gets made”.

    • Ted

      I love the idea.

      I wonder who we could get to play Thorne’s Mother and Uncle (bio dad). The would have to be Special Guest Stars (stars of the few other Canadian programs that have seen a smidgen of success).

  17. Ted

    Only of the things I want to imply but not go out and explicitly state in this episode is that Thorne kills them because his mother tells him that he is going to divorce his father and finally be “honest” enough to marry his uncle (bio dad). The private shame of knowing that his uncle was really his father has been hard enough for Throne to endure but the public nature of this shameful act would have been overbearing for Thorne to endure so he kills them.

    The mother would have to have the outside appearance of being prim and proper.

    Any idea who we could get to play her?

    • Ted

      I want to imply but not go out and explicitly state in this episode is that Thorne kills them because his mother tells him that he is going to divorce his father and finally be “honest” enough to marry his uncle (bio dad).

      Or perhaps “Thorne” (really Amaar’s subconscious) could tell Amaar that at the end. I think Amaar might figure out that was what probably happened.

      Thorne: I might be going to hell, but after living in Mercy it won’t seem like much of a change in residence. Goodbye Amaar.

      Amaar: Goodbye…

      Thorne disappears in a puff of smoke.

      McGee walks in. Did you say something Amaar?

  18. Steve

    You know Ted given the nature of this season I thought it could end with Amaar decking Thorne after Thorne gets all creepy and sexually inappropriate with Rayyan.

    Kind of like this

    Thorne: Hey Rayyan let me see what you have hidden under that hijab of yours.

    Rayyan: Don’t you touch me.

    Amaar comes in seeing what is going on punches Thorne.

    Thorne: (Running out) Now you have done it Amaar, I want you and all your smelly brownies out out my church immediate.

    Amaar (concerned only about Rayyan): Are you okay?

    Rayyan (obviously shaken up): yeah.

    —–

    But then you had the episode where Amaar actually does slug Thorne so at least half of this scenario has already been done. So it wouldn’t have as much of the “over the top” effect I thought it would.

    Yeah, having Thorne commit what some might call “honor killings” would indeed be “over the top” and would appeal to the writers need to show that “such stuff doesn’t only happen in Islamic cultures”.

  19. Ted

    Season 5 Episode 2 The Right Spin.

    The Mayor and Sarah work on a publicity campaign to try to boost Mercy’s image in an attempt to counteract the bad press the “Rampaging Reverend” has caused.

    Meanwhile Rayyan agrees to help Amaar prepare for Baber’s hearing.

    Mayor: How about…Nope, got nothing.

    Sarah: How about Mercy – Don’t Blame Us… He was from Toronto…?

  20. Ted

    Mayor: The Rampaging Reverend… What’s with that?

    Sarah: I know it’s not like he was running around the streets with a machete or anything like that. He only killed his family.

  21. Ted

    Season 5 Episode 3 – Say Hurrah for Mercywood.

    The town is excited to hear that a movie crew is in Mercy to shoot a new film. That excitement soon fades when it is discovered what the movie is about.

    Also Amaar’s defense of Baber seems to be making things worse.

    • Ted

      Movie”Thorne”: After all it’s my mission in life to get you close to your maker. Now let me introduce Him to you (stabbing a dagger in the young woman’s heart).

      Rayyan: You do know he only killed two people and he didn’t stab them.

      Director: Poetic license. Whitney

      Rayyan: Rayyan

      Director: Whatever Poetic license.

      Rayyan: And any first year med student knows that stabbing a body there wouldn’t cause so much blood. You would have to stab her there.

      Director: You don’t say…

      —–

      Sarah: You are actually Working for that horrid man Rayyan.

      Rayyan: He made me medical consultant.

      —-

      Later on:

      Director: Poetic License…

      Sarah: I like to give him a poetic license with my..

      Mayor: Uh uh be nice. This movie is bringing in lots of money to this town.

  22. Nahida

    That must have devastated him to the core of his being. I am surprised it didn’t cause more of a breakdown for him.

    That’s probably only because he’s a bad actor…

    • Steve

      Well, you are probably right about that.

      But still he just found out. So perhaps we will see the fall of Thorne before the end of this season.

      Are we going feel sorry to see him destroy himself? I think the show has been slowly, ever so slowly moving in that direction the last few episodes.

      I don’t know if it is going to go all the way to suicide. Perhaps just a mental institution or he leaves the church and turns into a drunk.

      OR PERHAPS, in the whole “White Girl” tradition, he frees himself of his white trash past by becoming a Muslim.

      Hey, Ted an ending that BEATS him becoming an “Honor Killer”. Rev Thorne becomes a MUSLIM after Amaar saves him from himself!

  23. Nahida

    Baber wasn’t racist against Jews… how can you be racist against something that isn’t a race? Drives me nuts.

    Anyway he seemed to change toward the end of the episode.

    • Ted

      Agreed.

      I just didn’t know what other term to use.

      • Steve

        I used race because clearly Baber saw Jews as more than a religion but a race. And indeed there are Jews who are secular. But yeah, when it comes to Jews the whole “race” thing becomes unclear. Now Hitler saw them as a “race” as well.

        Frankly the whole term “Race” is more vague than we tend to give it credit as being. After all in reality, when you look at it biologically, there is only one race… the Human Race.

        And I don’t mean to be PC about that. Scientifically you won’t find a good definition of “race” anywhere.

        Now we tend to use “racism” as a synonym for any prejudice based on national origin. If I thought people from England were inferior I would be called a racist even if I was white too and didn’t think the same thing about people from Ireland (who are genetically close).

        But yeah, I should have been more precise. Do you have a better term for me to use?

    • Steve

      He didn’t really change much.

      He was sorry that he had lumped her in with “the Jews” and he did admit that his uncle might not be that bright, but I still think he fears a group of people out there called “the Jews” .

    • Steve

      The whole thing makes me wonder if Baber had ever seen a Jew before. I mean someone he knew he was a Jew. After all Nathan was a Jew but he didn’t know that.

      He seemed generally surprised and shocked and it was practically like he wanted to warn the people around him that there was one in their midst.

      Hey Nathan, watch out, She’s actually a JEW.

  24. Nahida

    And I thought Fred’s retort was clever. =X

  25. Nahida

    Ted–I’m not sure if they’re allowed to say the word “sex.” They seemed to go out of their way to avoid it in this episode…

    • Ted

      Good point. That’s one of the good things about this show. In some ways this show is a throw back to the 1950s though you do have the Mayor which kind of throws it right back again.

    • Steve

      Hopefully they know that it would turn away Muslims from this show.

      Look, I kind of like that there’s a religious group of people out there that left wing television and movie people are afraid of their lives to offend.

      At it’s best this show could be a return to wholesome entertainment if the show did away with all it’s Christian bashing.

  26. Ted

    Season 5 Episode 4 Basedon a “True” Story.

    After successfully getting Baber released (well it was really almost an accident) on a technicality Amaar returns to Mercy with him only to find his Mosque turned into a movie studio.

    Amaar: You turned the Mosque in to a movie studio?

    Yasir: But think of the money it is bringing into the Mosque.

    Amaar: But THERE IS NO MOSQUE you turned it into a movie studio.

    Yasir: Exactly but…

    Rayyan: Dad have you gotten the new set design plans yet.. Oh, hi Amaar I didn’t know you were back…

    Amaar: Don’t tell me you are part of this.

    Rayyan: I am the official medical consultant..

    —–

    Director: Now Anton,

    Amaar: Amaar…

    Director: Whatever, Poetic License.. You said here is where you found the body…

    Amaar: Yeah, I still have nightmares about it.

    Director: Whatever, Poetic License.

    Amaar: Why does this guy keep saying “Poetic License”?

    Yasir: I don’t know..

    Director: Okay, I got it. We can have you falsely accused of all the murders in this town but you escape prison to find out that it was really your oldest closest friend the Reverend…

    Amaar: We really weren’t friends…

    Yasir: That’s right they really weren’t.

    Director: Whatever, Poetic license..

    Director: Now you confront each other with swords, you know like an whole “Highlander” type thing and you fight until you cut his head off…No, wait Muslim cutting Christian’s head off not PC..

    —-

    Later.

    Amaar: Your Poetic License has been revoked!

    Director: You can’t do that… (to Yasir) he can’t do that can he.

    Yasir: He’s the Imam.

  27. Nahida

    Mo that was out of line.

    You’re like the Muslim version of Greg or Max.

    But I guess no one here found it offensive since they kind of went with it anyway, which I guess goes to show that when they do it to Muslim characters they’d do it to anyone…

    But really, it’s ALWAYS irrelevant, no matter who does it to whom. Like just now, you assumed he’s adopted because he’s a bastard… Maybe both his parents DIED? I don’t think the reason was ever mentioned! And you might have taken that passage completely out of context!

    • Steve

      The Rev. clarified it himself I thought.

      He is not adopted.

      It’s just that his father isn’t who he thought his father was.

      His mother got pregnant by her husband’s brother (his uncle).

      • Nahida

        Rayyan had exclaimed that he was adopted… and he never denied it despite the two of them (Rayyan and Amaar) repeating it over and over.

        You can still be adopted and not know who you father is.

  28. Steve

    Well he said his uncle so I am assuming it’s his FATHER’S Brother.

    Yeah, if it was his mother’s brother that would be far, far worse of course.

  29. Steve

    It could be a family friend I guess as sometimes kids call their parents male friends “Uncle”.

    Regardless here he thought that his mother was like this righteous woman only to find out that he is not a product of the union of her and her husband.

    That’s got to rock him to his core.

  30. Nahida

    Amaar: “Being adopted is nothing to be ashamed of.”

    Thorne: “Riiight…”

    He never said he wasn’t adopted. His behavior with the statement only confirms it.

    • Steve

      Riight, but I wasn’t adopted. The guy I had all my life called Uncle told me he was really my father.

      Not an exact quote but close enough.

      • Nahida

        LOL! No that wasn’t close, he’d said something about wetting the bed after…

      • Steve

        It’s at around 6:30 at the third part of the show.

      • Bronwen

        It could have been a family adoption. Ie, maybe his or mother was a teenager so his father’s or mother’s much older brother and his wife adopted the baby. That’s the sort of situation I was assuming.

      • Steve

        He knew who his mother was.

        Just not his father. Well he though he knew until his uncle told him the truth.

        This is absolutely going to devastate Thorne.

  31. Steve

    He knew who his father was. He was just having it confirmed. His father finally told him he was his father.

    He thought his father was his mother’s husband, the guy who raised him, but then he found out, no “uncle” is really your father.

  32. Nahida

    Maybe he was a child outside of wedlock, but that doesn’t eliminate adoption.

    I hope he forgives his mother. You can still be a good person and make a mistake. =( That is, if you’re not already married… If she did it even while she was married (and not before) so she’d actually CHEATED… no comment.

  33. Steve

    I think he might indeed kill his mother.

    As she dishonored the image he had of his family the image he had of himself.

    Because, yeah with something like this it’s not only Muslims who can turn to violence.

    Either that or he becomes a total wreck until Amaar saves him and as a result Thorne changes his name and turns to Islam.

    Now what would a good name for Thorne be? I mean a real good Muslim name. Yusuf Islam is already taken. So too Mohammad Ali.

    How about Yusuf Ali?

    Either way Mercy is going to need a new Anglican Reverend next season. Perhaps McGee will return.

    • Nahida

      Good luck trying to convert after killing your own mother.

      • Steve

        It’s an either or thing.

        Ether will kill his mother (and perhaps his “uncle” ) and commit suicide which of course would be ironic that in a town full of Muslims it’s the Christian Anglican Reverend who does the honor killing and becomes a suicide killer.

        OR

        Thorne suffers a total meltdown but Amaar is there to save him. Amaar successfully converts a Anglican Reverend to Islam proving that Islam is a much much superior religion.

        Which do you think would be the better route for the show to go? I agree it can’t be that he commits suicide and then becomes a Muslim.

      • Ned

        Actually one can convert to Christianity after killing one’s own mother if one is truly repentant.

        I am kind of surprised the same isn’t true with Islam given how successful it seems to be within the prison population.

        But then again, Christianity is all big on this redemption and forgiveness thing.

        Forgiveness isn’t one of Islam’s strong suits. After all you people are still going on about the crusades and that happened a thousand years ago.

  34. Ted

    Perhaps Thorne will try to continue on being an Anglican Reverend even after converting to Islam.

    Sounds insane? I agree but it they do that it wouldn’t be without a basis in reality.

    Check this news article out.

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/02/muslim.minister.defrocked/

    For nearly 30 years, Redding has been an ordained minister in the Episcopal Church. Her priesthood ended Wednesday when she was defrocked.

    The reason? For the past three years Redding has been both a practicing Christian and a Muslim.

    Can you imagine being deflocked for that? Just goes to show how intolerant those Christians are.

    Oh, here’s my favorite quote though.

    But Redding said she felt her new Muslim faith did not pose a contradiction to her staying a Christian and minister.

    I find this hilarious and this is real life. Just think what fun the show could have if the fictional character Thorne tried to do this.

    But then again, this could offend the Muslim viewers of the show. Sure it would also offend Christians, but the writers aren’t afraid of their lives due to Christians.

    And people who haven’t heard of this real case would probably find the whole plot line hard to believe because indeed truth CAN BE stranger than fiction.

    Especially in the strange times we live in.

  35. Nahida

    Why do people insist on changing their names after conversion… it’s not an obligation.

    As long as you don’t have a name that’s of pagan origin, there’s no such thing as a “Muslim” name. They’re all just Arab names to that people change… And Islam isn’t limited to Arab culture.

    Like changing “Mary” to “Mariam.” It’s the same thing! Pointless.

  36. Steve

    Well it might not be an obligation but I could sure see why Thorne would want to change his name to cut his link with his family’s shame.

    Perhaps the Mosque could have a friendly competition to help William Thorne come up with a new name.

    • Ted

      Now that would be a season ender for you.

      Amaar: I like to present to you the newest member of our Mosque.

      Fred would go crazy on his show! Accuse the Muslims of using “Mind Control”.

      Fred: Get away from me. I don’t want you go all converting me like you did the poor Rev there.

  37. Nahida

    Ned–I never said it was impossible to convert after killing one’s own mother.

    I meant it’s so shameful in Islam (the mother is honored three times before the father) that you might find it difficult to ease into the community you everyone shunning you in horror…

    • Nahida

      with everyone*

    • Susan

      Well hopefully even in Canada such an act would result in a prison sentence.

      So the only community he would be easing into would be a prison community (that is if he didn’t commit suicide).

      Now I guess in Muslim society if it was found out that a woman did this it would of course be up to the husband to kill her, right? But what if the son discovered this after his father died, whose responsibility would it be to kill her then? Well I guess it would be his brother’s responsibility if he had one, but wait in this case it’s the brother who she cheated on with.

      So I am wondering is there any case in Islam where one must honour kill their mother? Or is it only ones sisters, daughters and wives?

      • Nahida

        No, it wouldn’t be “up to her husband” to kill her. You don’t kill people in your own family, unless it was an accident or out of self defense.

        When you hear reports of such things it’s just crazy people.

  38. Nahida

    Christianity is all big on this redemption and forgiveness thing.

    Yeah, I would think that was the issue.

    Do whatever you want as long as you confess on Sunday!

    Lame.

  39. Nahida

    Which do you think would be the better route for the show to go? I agree it can’t be that he commits suicide and then becomes a Muslim.

    I can’t imagine either for this show. Murder and suicide in the plot seem to be on the same grounds as using the word sex. I don’t think they didn’t use that word because they thought it would offend Muslims, I think they didn’t use it because they want to keep it kid-friendly or something. And neither murder nor suicide is within the range of typical seven-year-old comprehension.

    And it’s a comedy for crying out loud.

    • Nahida

      Of course, they’ve done things beyond seven-year-old comprehension before.

      Perhaps “family-friendly” would be a better way to put it.

    • Steve

      Perhaps the cliffhanger this year could be that Thorne attempts suicide (but doesn’t attempt any honor killings).

      The cliffhanger could be Amaar finding him like before but when Rayyan checks him she finds a faint pulse. It ends with her calling for ambulance and doing CPR or whatever a doctor would so when coming across someone who has a drug overdose.

      The next season we find out that due to Rayyan’s Doctor skills Thorne has survived and no it is up to Amaar to save his soul and convert him to Islam.

  40. Nahida

    No, it wouldn’t be “up to her husband” to kill her. You don’t kill people in your own family, unless it was an accident or out of self defense.

    When you hear reports of such things it’s just crazy people.

    To clarify, there would need to be a trial, with evidence and witnesses. If it is the case of adultery (the ONLY time there can be execution other than for a rapist) the executors are not the families.

    Having sex before of marriage does not result in death. The penalty is 100 lashes. And the penalty is out of question if the girl (or guy) was raped. Only the rapist in this case would be put to death.

    Consensual adultery is also the only case in Islam that a woman would ever be killed. For other severe crimes she would be imprisoned.

    • Steve

      We have genetic confirmation in this case. If this happened in an Islamic society would it only be the mother or would it also be the “uncle” who would be killed?

      • Nahida

        It depends on whether the uncle is married.

        If so, he is also an adulterer, and he would be killed.

        If not, he has had sex before or outside of marriage, and would be sentenced to 100 lashes.

  41. Nahida

    I’d like to point out that siblings can sometimes have VERY similar DNA. It would be incredibly easy for the test results to have been incorrect if it’s between a father and his brother.

    Maybe there’s been a mix-up.

  42. Steve

    Just want to let everyone know that Nahida has a very good post at her web site though I do differ with it slightly.

    http://thefatalfeminist.blogspot.com/2011/09/nonconsensual-sexualization-of.html

    I do think that women have a duty to not dress provocatively in public but so does the man.

    And of course the problem is that people might have different interpretations of what “provocatively” might mean. And even if the clothing is provocative people still have control of their actions.

    I have to admit that I am kind of have a Mixed mind about this issue but at the end of the day we can’t ever ever accept as an excuse being sexually provoked by clothing. No is always no.

  43. Steve

    Here is a video regarding Nahida’s subject. Warning though on some of the language. It’s from Australia and their television can get a little more risque than our television is allowed to.

  44. Steve

    Here’s one about sex and Religion.

  45. Steve

    Different subject.

    I want to show Nahida that I am fair and not hypocritical about the whole “Ground Zero” mosque thing.

    I believe that the church should find another place to build their church rather than in a Muslim Neighborhood on a street with a Muslim name.

    As long as they do have a place to build the church then they should be respectful of the wishes of the community.

    Of course it’s not like they are building a church on a site where Christians massacred Muslims, but still, they should respect the local community especially since it sounds like they have other options to where they can place the church.

  46. KelsShels

    Yeah, well we believe they should be able to build the church there. How is it disrespectful that they want it there? It’s not.

  47. Steve

    There’s other places they can build the church. Why build it in a place that upsets the local community?

    I still think that Carmelite convent should have been allowed near Auschwitz but the pope thought differently. I know that Jews were the primary victims but Edith Stein was a Carmelite nun who died at Auschwitz so obviously they meant no disrespect.

    I know that Islam in general wasn’t responsible for 9-11 but indeed people who claimed Islam as their religion were. And I am sorry, I really see it as a trophy Mosque. If that’s not the intent of the Mosque that will be the interpretation radical Muslims will place upon it.

    But again, in all these cases it’s the sensitivities of the local community that should come into play. Why upset people and create division when one doesn’t have to? In this recent case about the Indonesian church I would understand the Christian position if NO churches were allowed in that area of the country but they are only asking for it not to be placed on that street.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704271804575405330350430368.html

  48. Steve

    KelsShels, okay, the article at the bottom of the post this might go overboard. As long as the question was the placement of the church I would side with the community but this below does sound like they are trying to eliminate churches entirely.

    It seems like Muslims ask for tolerance only until they become the majority.

    http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2011/09/03/uncertain-future-evicted-christian-institutions.html

  49. Steve

    Here’s another article about the situation.

    Again if it is only regarding the placement of the church then I would side with the community. Putting a church in an area that is mostly Muslim, when there are other options, could be seen as provocative.

    But if this is part of some general movement to drive churches out of the city then I would be against it.

    But of course what makes the Ground Zero mosque different is the magnitude of what happened there. Also it bothers me that the city wouldn’t let a church that was destroyed by the attack rebuild. That’s hypocritical.

    http://www.speroforum.com/a/59059/Indonesia—No-churches-Bogor-mayor-against-the-law-and-government

  50. KelsShels

    Uh, compared to Christians, Muslims aren’t the majority. We’re second.

    There’s other places they can build the church. Why build it in a place that upsets the local community?

    Because protecting rights is more important than feelings.

    I know that Islam in general wasn’t responsible for 9-11 but indeed people who claimed Islam as their religion were.

    What, so they represent us now? You’re letting them win. That’s what they want, for everyone to think they’re the only ones right about Islam, and to invalidate the way the rest of us practice it. I can’t believe you’re putting a bunch of fanatics over the rights of Americans like us.

  51. KelsShels

    Because protecting rights is more important than feelings.

    Especially since powerful people have a reputation of disrespecting rights in the name of their own feelings! I guess it depends on WHOSE feelings we’re talking about. For example, the post you linked from Nahida, her rights have been violated because men are wussies who can’t handle rejection. And they pressure women to dress a certain way because of their feelings.

    What about Nahida’s feelings? What about her comfort and freedom of expression?

    But men’s feelings are more important than women’s feelings. Men show a loss of privilege and everyone starts crying for them.

    In America Christians are the powerful majority so naturally their feelings are more important! It doesn’t matter how heartbroken and leftout WE feel.

  52. Steve,

    Are you working late tonight?

    (Working at all on Labor Day? How Absurd.) Someone just accessed my site from (I think) where you work; if it wasn’t you, I just thought I’d let you know, in case your activity is being monitored in some unholy but legal infringement of privacy.

    XX Nahida

  53. Jenny

    I was going to say how can she see stuff you leave her when she doesn’t come BUT OMG SHE CAME!

  54. Steve

    The biggest losers in the Obama economy are men rather than women. This is a fact that is bad for men, for families, for the federal deficit, federal debt problems and for the health of the U.S. economy. Men have lost twice as many jobs as women.

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=341873

  55. Steve

    Hi Nahida.

    Remember way back when I hypothetically said that if some liberal (Teddy Kennedy/Bill Clinton type) raped you there would be no support from your friends in the Leftist community including fellow feminists.

    Well, here’s a story to prove that point. Didn’t happen to you, thank Allah, but it did happen to a 14 year old Teen who joined in the “Occupy” Protest.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/teenager-claims-she-was-raped-at-the-occupy-cleveland-protest/

  56. Steve

    And another, huh..

    A 19 year old.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/police-investigating-possible-sexual-assault-of-teen-at-occupy-dallas/

    I hear that they are trying to “Self Police” themselves now. Of course they want to handle it “internally” and plan to give “therapy” to both the victim and the rapist (yeah you heard me).

    Whatever you think of the Right, the Left is just plain EVIL.

  57. Steve

    By the way, remember the “First Occupy protest”. You know that whole thing in Egypt. Rape the Jew (who wasn’t a Jew but that’s not really the point is it).

    You better be VERY careful on whose side you eventually fall on this. Because this is a “time for choosing”. Sides are being picked and in the end we all must choose a side.

    Oh, here’s a great article. New evidence emerging from the digital messaging board of Occupy Baltimore indicates that sexual and verbal harassment of women at the camp has been a widely discussed problem for nearly two weeks.

    http://www.verumserum.com/?p=31075

  58. I need to talk to you.

    But if you’re all made up and rather have a one-way conversation, stay the hell away from me.

    I’m serious.

  59. KelsShels

    Hey douchebag. STOP. HARASSING. HER.

    Stop sucking up to the idols you blindly worship without knowing what’s going on on the inside. Stop spewing out worthless media because you can’t get your own damn perspective. Stop talking about things you don’t understand. Stop contacting her whenever you please while not allowing her to contact you, you CREEPY SICKO.

    • Nahida

      Calm down there, roomie.

      Steve, we can’t do anything. We were able to speak out against Greenstreet because there wasn’t a particular woman involved. If the victim does not want to report the crime because it would undermine her cause (raped by liberals, unable to report thanks to conservatives) it is anti-feminist to force her, it is a violation of her privacy, and it is disrespectful of her choice. We actually CARE about this shit, you see, unlike you, we’re not just using her for political gains. The best we can do is help her on a personal level, not take it to the media without her consent and let it explode into national outrage in which she is attacked. (Remember what happened to Assange’s rape victims?) I doubt that you can’t understand what’s going on, you just care about “proving” your side. You know, the same way you did when you told me I should be raped.

      I’ve asked you to refrain from commenting on the site because you’re SCARING me now with your policing and your… wtf do you call this. Crazy. The fact that you’re not listening is sending out some serious warning signals.

    • KelsShels

      Isn’t it funny that steve only cares about rape when it’s beneficial for him to care? exactly what he’s accused feminists of doing? Mina was the one who brought up schwartzenegger. And the call he could to was pull a strawman and be all like, “well he was a REAL republican.”

      So so telling.

      Well guess what. These aren’t REAL liberals.

  60. KelsShels

    we can’t do anything.

    Nahida, we’re doing a lot. steve’s just butthurt that he’s not getting any points for it because it’s not in the mainstream media.

    It’s not REALLY helping unless conservatives get credit!

  61. Steve

    Oh please Nahida,

    I don’t live anywhere near California and even if I did I have no idea where you live.

    Perhaps you have reason to fear, but only of those who actually know you personally.

    It’s the one you don’t see coming that gets you.

    As to the rape thing, it just proves what hypocrites the Left are. Just like they were with Bill Clinton!

    • Nahida

      Hey, I missed this before. You do too live near California! I was IN YOUR STATE two weeks ago, while the university was still in cession! And made it back for Monday. That is how close you live! You just have to get through the state in between where people smoke weed.

      • KelsShels

        You just have to get through the state in between where people smoke weed.

        LMFAO AHAHAHA BE NICE my family’s from there!

  62. Steve

    By the way Nahida, I said you should be raped by a liberal because then you would see all your allies betray you like they did to Juanita Broaddrick. It wasn’t the rape part but the betrayal part I was emphasizing there.

  63. Steve

    Feminists are a bunch of evil Hypocrites!

  64. Steve

    Oh, I also said I hope your brothers are falsely accused of rape.

    You know like the Duke Lacrosse Rape case. The feminists destroyed these men but we found out they were innocent.

  65. KelsShels

    Why are you talking around this Steve? Tell Nahida that she’s an evil hypocrite for not betraying the women who’ve been raped by reporting their identities without their consent, instead of using the third party word “feminist.” (You can also stop mixing up the second and third wave. Thats freakin annoying.)

    Yeah, you don’t live where we do. You have no idea what we’ve done.

    Cry me a new one! When we DO pursue cases because the woman consents to it, of course it’s wrong because an evil leftist wasn’t the rapist.

    It’s only something to care about when liberals do it.

    Keep pulling the same case out of your ass. I’m sure we can do it for guns and the death penalty too.

  66. Nahida

    But rape is speshul Kels. It’s the only crime where it’s flatteringly the victim’s fault.

    I wasn’t worried you’d physically come after me, Steve;–you’re just hurting me. And it’s bewildering that you’re having these random fits. It’s scary because I don’t understand them! For the love of God, don’t act like you’ve never seen lips before!

  67. Nahida

    Kels, the feminists during Bill Clinton WAS the third wave. Sex-poistivity.

    The radical second wave would have been furious.

  68. KelsShels

    Um. Then what the hell are we? Is it the fourth wave already?

    I guess you can’t tell until the wave passes…

  69. Nahida

    I’m sure we can do it for guns and the death penalty too.

    (I am not against guns as long as they are strictly regulated and kept out of impoverished neighborhoods with high rates of violence. The latter is probably inconceivable.)

  70. KelsShels

    A rape report depends on two things: whether the woman wants to report it, and whether she feels she was raped in the first place. Nahida, how old were we for Clinton? Eleven? I don’t know whether Lewinsky thought it was rape or if she had consented, but if she didn’t think so and consented that would explain why nothing happened. We can’t just overturn the victim’s voice and speak for her. It’s wrong, patronizing, and hypocritical.

    If I consented, and someone who called herself a feminist came around telling me I’d been raped I would be SO ANGRY. I know damn well what happened, and she’s disrespecting my rights by telling me I’m not capable of deciding that for myself.

  71. Nahida

    We were eleven for his last term; four, when he was elected.

    I would be angry too; you know, I was discussing this with a radical feminist and she thought that ALL SEX is rape. Her logic was that a woman cannot give consent because she cannot withhold it. (As in, when you’re in a relationship, you have to eventually engage in it or you’ll lose your partner.) It was ridiculous. And it simply isn’t true: it completely erases the existence of asexual people, it erases underprivileged experiences, it erases the very real fact that sex is as rightfully and as desirably a biological function of women as it is of men which is why women can consent. And it erases that even in the context of patriarchy, there are sanctuaries. And you can’t practically apply this. What the hell are we supposed to do with that, then? Lock everyone up? I can see how this brought about the birth of sex-positivity! It was an absurd form of “do we or do we not have free will”–interesting question, meaningless in activism.

    • Steve

      All sex is rape.

      So says Catherine MacKinnon.

      Perhaps now you are kind of getting why I hate you so much Nahida.

      • Nahida

        Jesus Christ, Steve, if you hate me so much STOP TALKING TO ME.

        Instead of complaining about random things on my site, and just getting in the way. You know, I don’t tell YOU to shut up every time you say something I find remotely attractive. But no, you just whine about how no one is ever! sensitive! to you!

      • KelsShels

        This is like saying you hate all white people because of neo-nazis.

      • Steve

        I hate all Neo Nazis.

      • KelsShels

        I thought it was Ben who complained. He didn’t even complain, he just said it was “sensual” or was that just Steve?

      • KelsShels

        Do you want her to wear a burkha, Steve?

      • Nahida

        He didn’t even complain, he just said it was “sensual”

        Imagine my surprise with the next comment.

      • Nahida

        You should have told me “attractive” and “sensual” was the new “slut” Steve. I had mistaken them for mere observations.

      • Steve

        I am so tired of you talking about who does and does not have “privilege”.

        Your looks alone is going to give you lots and lots of “privilege.” And then of course your ethnicity far from being a disadvantage to you will be a “privilege” as well as companies are going to want to have ethnic people working for them.

        Life is not fair so lots of the time one has to just suck it up and try the best they can despite everything.

        And ruining Halloween doesn’t make things “more fair”.

      • Nahida

        Steve, no one is trying to ruin Halloween. A bunch of white girls and boys dressed as Princess Jasmine, Aladdin, and Mulan are fine. A bunch of white girls and boys dressed as Harem Girl, Muslim Dude Who Steals Shit (complete with cut-off hand) and Geisha (cause Chinese and Japanese are the same right?), is racist.

        Do you really not see the difference? Little girls dressed as Princess Tiana are adorable. Little girls dressed as Princess Tiana with shoe police to darken their skin and make them look black is racist.

        Have you never heard of blackface?

        I’m not going to “deal” with it just so you can have your little fun at the expense of all people of color.

        Steve, when you learned about America in school you were taught that people of your color made it what it is.

        You were given course material that testified your race exists.

        When you hand someone a credit card, your skin color will not be used judge your financial responsibility.

        You can do well without it being accredited to your race.

        You can do poorly without it being accredited to your race.

        People trust you.

        When you date someone, no one will ask you what race she is.

        When you look at magazines your race will be represented.

        You can trace your ancestry.

        You will not be asked to represent your race. If you are the only white person, your voice will not be silenced because of it.

        When you walk out of a business meeting, no one is going to make jokes about West Side Story.

        And you know what? My looks are average. They’re average for every 20 year old woman. I can’t wear the same things white women wear without looking hypersexualized thanks to a history of colonial rape. When I date a man, there’s a possibility I’m on his bucketlist because he wants an “exotic experience” and would never, ever, take me seriously. Women who look like me are good enough to sleep with, but never to marry.

      • KelsShels

        You know, people used to want to be scary things for halloween. like vampires and ghouls.

        Steve how would you feel if someone wanted to be Jesus? or God?

      • KelsShels

        Well, your looks are a *little* above average. =P

        But Steve, you would make fun of white people who put feathers in their hair trying to look edgy and like they “totally get” Native American culture, when they are really just being offensive. You don’t see a parallel here?

      • Nahida

        The one good thing about conservatives, and it STILL doesn’t come through on Halloween.

        http://mycultureisnotatrend.tumblr.com/

        Just scroll down through the pictures, Steve.

      • Nahida

        Look at this one.

        http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lr1174s0cW1qf5ua5o1_500.png

        Seriously, wtf. Those feathers have religious significance. And there they are on the head of a sexualized woman. Offensive twice.

      • kelsshel

        Honey, what did you expect? For him to see his blind spot?

        Lol.

        Nahida, slap a (flesh-colored) bland-aid on your bleeding heart, and learn that you just can’t make some people see.

      • kelsshel

        I just thought he would consider.

        /shrug

        Whatever, I’m not sticking around any place where my paragraphs are met dismissively with convenient links.

      • Nahida

        That was me, not Kels.

        Stop switching our laptops! -_-

      • kelsshel

        Oops, sorry Nahida LOL!!

      • Steve

        “You will not be asked to represent your race. If you are the only white person, your voice will not be silenced because of it.”

        Are you kidding?

        I probably would be afraid for my life. If not, I would feel very uncomfortable in such a room and would not want to talk. And certainly my voice would be silenced if I did with sounds of RACIST!

      • Nahida

        Steve, do you realize the demographics now?

        Kels and I are both of color.

        If you’re AFRAID of them for no reason… that’s kinda racist?

      • Steve

        Oh, but there is a reason. I am “Privileged” (well they think I am).

        Yeah they would beat my lilly white butt or at the very least shout me down.

      • Steve

        Perhaps an advantage that you have is that you are used to being the only one in a room full of people of another race.

        I am not.

        But you said that I would not be asked to represent your race. If I was the only white guy in the room you bet I would be.

      • kelsshels

        never meeting someone of your race isn’t a privilege, Steve. It makes you always the “foreigner” even though you were born here. You would represent it in the sense that there are so many representations of white people. No one’s going to ask you if you tried a certain “white person” dish. If you’re Italian they’re not going to expect you to know Irish food, just because they are also white.

        have you ever been actually beaten up because of your race?? or are you just depending on movies? (See what we mean, always negative portrayal.)

      • Nahida

        Steve, do you seriously think I’m even CAPABLE of kicking your ass?

        Unless you were already tied and gagged I couldn’t even pinch you.

      • kelsshels

        i testify that this is true.

        she’s really… feminine, I guess? she’s more soft curves than muscle.

        a 93 pound, 20 year old is not going to be able to kick your ass.

      • Nahida

        I would never want to hurt you, Steve.

        I don’t understand why you’d think people of color would beat you up.

      • kelsshels

        Women who look like me are good enough to sleep with, but never to marry.

        You mean women of your color, without your features? You’ve had like three marriage proposals missy! =P

      • Nahida

        I mean women of color, yes.

      • Steve

        I wasn’t saying you would want to hurt me Nahida. I was particularly thinking about being the only white in a room full of Blacks or Hispanics.

      • Steve

        One of the best things about courting as opposed to dating is you weed out the jerks who just want to get in bed with you.

        There is much I do respect regarding Islam.

      • kelsshels

        Dude. I’m Hispanic.

        And you don’t know Nahida’s race (because she doesn’t identify with one). As far as you know she could be either.

  72. Nahida

    Wait, I was wrong. We were TWO when he was elected.

    Obviously this is why I’m an English major. I only count pages.

  73. KelsShels

    You’re really good at geometry and trigonometry though. Anything involving shapes. You just suck at algebra.

  74. Nahida

    I’m Muslim, geometry doesn’t count. =P

  75. Steve

    Juanita Broaddrick didn’t consent.

    And yeah, four, two, look I know you don’t like your age used against you Nahida, I’ve been there, but what you need to know that these battles have been going on long before you (or even I) came on the scene.

    You may not remember Clarence Thomas. But oh, I do and I will never forgive “you” for that. “You” in this case meaning the feminists you have lashed yourself to.

  76. Steve

    How about the “one grope rule” that Gloria Steinem established.

    http://www.whatyouknowmightnotbeso.com/1-grope.html

  77. KelsShels

    Gloria Steinem is a transphobic weirdo (who has otherwise written some good stuff)

    There are traitors, like Naomi Wolf. Unlike conservatives, we actually push off the people who betray us.

    • Steve

      We are getting there.

      Watch us destroy Romney next year (I sure hope we do).

      Valid criticism of Conservatives though you have to understand we don’t have as much of a forum to push off our people than you do. You control the Universities. You control the news media.

      By the way, exactly when did you push off Gloria Steinem? I don’t remember any protests against her.

      One thing the Left does is “push off” their people years after they are relevant.

      For example the Left was supportive of Stalin for years. Then in 2007, radical Leftist Pete Seeger wrote a song against him. Yeah more than a half of century after it really mattered. Sorry, Pete, too little too late.

      • KelsShels

        OF COURSE you don’t remember. Mainstream feminism centers around white women, and the women who were protesting were of color!

        White privilege is rampant in the feminist movement. If it’s not backed up by white feminist, it doesn’t get enough attention. Why do you think Islamic feminism is still in its infancy? Naomi Wolf, on the other hand, was called out by Jaclyn Freidman and Jill Filipovic–white feminists. If the victim is white, it’s a score in her favor.

  78. Nahida

    Ugh, she wanted the spotlight again. She must have thought we would forget her. She could have been remembered with respect because of all the good she’s contributed, but then she had to go desperately defend an alleged rapist.

  79. Nahida

    Hey Kels, I’m gonna go shower. Watch that weird pumpkin thing you’re cooking.

  80. Nahida

    “…And actually that’s kind of why the concept of privilege is important – because privilege isn’t about being stupid. It’s not a bad thing, or a good thing, or something with a moral or value judgement of any kind attached to it. Having privilege isn’t something you can usually change, but that’s okay, because it’s not something you should be ashamed of, or feel bad about. Being told you have privilege, or that you’re privileged, isn’t an insult. It’s a reminder! The key to privilege isn’t worrying about having it, or trying to deny it, or apologize for it, or get rid of it. It’s just paying attention to it, and knowing what it means for you and the people around you. Having privilege is like having big feet. No one hates you for having big feet! They just want you to remember to be careful where you walk.” –Sindeloke

    Steve, there is privilege that comes with looking conventionally attractive, even if it is modified by other intersections, such as race.

    (When you hear the words “beautiful woman” what do you imagine? Isn’t she white? Even if she is racially ambiguous, I’m guessing she has eurocentric features. I’m betting she most certainly does not look like me.)

    And things like this are reflective of deeply rooted biases.

    But there is also privilege that comes with being part of a dominate race, even if it is modified by other intersections, such as class.

    (A poor white person is likely to have much more opportunity than a wealthier person of color.)

    Because some of these things aren’t alterable. And so we watch where we step.

  81. Nahida

    Remember the Jesus statue, Steve?

    I don’t live in the world constructed in Little Mosque, where the focus in on Muslims. And while the show was in the context of a Christian-dominated reality, and while it was well aware of this in the material it delivered, it created an alternate lens through which White, Christian culture was Othered in the same way that every other culture is in this reality on every other tv show.

    I was some place different, where suddenly I was Normal.

    And privileged.

    And that is why I didn’t see why it was so damn messed up that the statue broke. I never thought it was funny in the first place (not my type of humor) but I didn’t see why it was wrong. And I was only disturbed when Yasir was using the finger not because I was aware that it was wrong but because I have, as you know, a problem with dismembered body parts and disrespecting them.

  82. Steve

    It was messed up because it disrespected Christianity. Like that whole particular season did.

  83. Steve

    Here’s me being proved right again…

  84. Nahida

    Steve, I just can’t talk to you.

    I should have known.

  85. Nahida

    Halloween is changing, and it makes me so sad.

    There were practically no Halloween specials this year. There haven’t been trick-or-treaters for the past five years. It used to be a kids’ holiday, with ghosts and ghouls and vampires and witches and dead brides and zombies. Now it’s just cultural appropriation–and boring–an adult holiday that’s just an excuse for slutty costumes and excessive drinking.

    • kelsshel

      yeah I was just thinking that. It wasnt always cultural appropriation. The more that happened, the more the holiday became adult.

    • Steve

      Yep, just another part of our culture taken away from us.

      After all, you wouldn’t want to offend the Wiccans.

      • Steve

        The Left is Purposely doing this to us. Destroy a country’s traditions, customs, etc and it is much easier to then just collapse the entire system.

        Bottom Up, Top Down, Inside Out!

  86. kelsshel

    um, yeah by APPROPRIATION.

    maybe after people realize they shouldnt dress their preteens as Persian sex slaves and blackfaced gangsters they’ll go back to dressing them as witches.

    • Steve

      How can you be so insensitive to the Wiccan community kelsshel?

      Hater!

      • kelsshels

        because witches came before the wiccans, and now they think they can claim it. Nahida and I believe in magic too, you know. It’s part of being Muslim.

        going as a blackfaced gangster or a chinese geisha is waaay different than going as a witch. The former are racist slurs. The latter is something you can choose, and something that’s a part of you. It’s about who has the right to that identity.

      • Steve

        Every costume is going to offend someone out there.

        So, I guess the answer is what is actually beginning to happen.

        No more Halloween.

      • kelsshels

        Nope. that’s a slippery slope fallacy. Some people have legitimate reasons to be offended. others just want points.

        after decades of slavery? damn right there should be no blackface!

      • Steve

        And you get to decide which concerns are valid or not?

      • kelsshels

        No. We argue.

        believe it or not, it has a way of working out.

  87. kelsshels

    I hate when people bring their racist fetishes outside the bedroom. It’s worse on Halloween!

  88. kelsshels

    Nahida, you should have gone as a Dominatrix. And then you shoulda been all like, “Oh I’m sorry, am I making you uncomfortable in front of your kids? Well know you know how I feel when you dress your five year old like a prostitute!”

  89. Steve

    The Right might not be perfect but the Left is just Pure EVIL!

  90. Nahida

    Ugh, who’s going to fix the economy and represent the 99% while everyone’s out having disgusting orgies?!

  91. Steve

    If anything this should show you why the sex-positive “feminists” are so wrong.

    • Nahida

      Steve, sex-positivity is what prevents radical feminists from accusing EVERY MAN EVER of rape.

      They’re also responsible for the slut-walk, an important message.

      Both sides have pitfalls.

      • Nahida

        Radical feminists were completely against the Slutwalk, they women who have children breed patriarchy, and that I am betraying my sisters by traipsing around in heels.

        Yeah, not gonna join them completely. There are moments we need sex-positive feminists.

  92. Nahida

    Steve, I don’t think you can judge someone’s financial status by a single expensive item.

    I’ve gone days without meals to afford books. You wouldn’t know how much I had if you just judged it off of how many books I have.

    That reminds me of people judging homeless women just because they have traces of makeup. It’s a small luxury, surely poor people deserve a small luxury once in a while.

    Maybe she saved up for that laptop for years.

  93. Steve

    Now that it is getting cold you are beginning to see only a fraction of those who have been there in previous weeks. And yeah they are the diehards and many of them don’t come from the 1 percent though some do.

  94. Nahida

    Is this why you wouldn’t e-mail me, Steve? You really thought I would physically hurt you?

    You’ve been talking to me since I was 15.

    What are you afraid of? Tell me. Please?

  95. Nahida

    Right, Steve.

    Got it.

  96. Steve

    Those photos you showed me were not of Halloween costumes.

    Do I find them offensive? Of course I do. But I can’t do much about it.

    Society has been drifting away from where I would want it to be all my life.

    You wouldn’t find such photos in a Conservative Christian home. Just saying it was probably a Leftist who took them.

  97. kelsshels

    Steve, she’s gone.

    I’m glad though. She’d be incredibly hurt you put political labels before who she is.

    Though I guess it’s better than thinking she uses too many commas. =P

  98. kelsshels

    Steve, she wanted you to so that she could discuss politics, because she didn’t feel safe doing it here. But you decided not to, yet you discuss politics with her anyway and try to get through her blog.

    It just doesn’t make sense. I mean you can see why she thought it was her religion.

    • kelsshels

      Ok, im about done here…im going to ignore how offensive that article was in terms like “our blacks” vs “their blacks”… and instead ask, what’s your point steve? along with conservatives, nahida has fought as viciously against liberals who are wrong. im guessing you missed it on her blog when everyone was ganging up on a gay republican (asking why the hell he was a republican if he was gay and bullying him) and nahida told them all to fuck off because they were reducing him to his sexual orientation, instead of looking at him as a complete person who has his reasons for being republican that are just as valid besides his sexuality. didn’t she tell you at some point that she doesnt identify with the left? so what are you trying to do, exactly.

      you say it’s her politics, but you dont seem to know what they are.

      that’s all i have to say.

    • Debora

      I remember that. The so-called “liberals” got all offended that Nahida accuse them of homophobia. People these days cannot take constructive criticism. She was very polite and explained what they were doing wrong, until they got rude and started to bully the poor guy. Then they accused her of not being “open minded” like she claims. And in response she said she never claimed to be “open-minded” and that anyone who refers to themselves as “open-minded” is a pretentious idiot.

      That’s not the only time people have mistakenly accused her of not being as open minded “as she claimed”, even though she never said she was. Its just their impression of her. Because she is.

      Goes to show that we expect people to live up to the character WE assign.

    • Debora

      isn’t she a Democrat though?

      • kelsshels

        No, she’s unaligned. she’s not registered for either party.

        The problem with people, they care more about political labels than real issues and getting somewhere. they just care about their binary parties.

      • Steve

        I used to be a Republican but then I found out that they were almost as liberal as the Democrats. Now I am a Conservative Independent.

        It has been my experience that Liberals Regardless of Party Are EVIL!

      • kelsshels

        you’re caught up in parties too steve. what has she said that was evil? for goodness sake you told her she looked sensual and she took it as a compliment. (until the policing.) but you’re STILL grouping her at random with obscure references to hostile workplaces.

      • Steve

        I am EXTREMELY OFFENDED at you calling what I do sexual.

        HOW DARE YOU.

        Yeah, Nahida isn’t even remotely as EVIL as you ARE!

      • kelsshels

        um. the word sexual was no where in my comment.

      • Steve

        Like I said, no one ever cared about how I feel.

        But Gosh, you would think Nahida would care about ugly stereotypes against Black Males.

        Liberals are Racists, they are Sexists and they are Evil!

        And you kelsshels are far, far, far more evil than Nahida. At least from her I see glimmers of hope now and then.

      • Steve

        Yes you did kelsshels.

        It is up here for all to read.

        GO TO HELL!

      • Steve

        What you just did kelsshels is just so damn evil it is practically beyond belief.

        But it just proves, like the Occupy people prove, what I have known about you leftists for years.

        You are literally MONSTERS. YOU ARE EVIL!

      • kelsshels

        she does care about them. and where did i say it?? im seriously confused.

        i didnt mean anything.

  99. Steve

    What the Left has done to destroy people in this world is just plan evil.

    You are the Same Height Of My Wife?

    My whole LIFE has been a hostile workplace because of people like her.

    This could have been a beautiful country but instead it is Hell and getting worse everyday! It won’t get better for at least five years if it ever gets better. Might be that it keeps on getting worse and worse and worse.

    • Steve

      Actually to be fair kelsshels is a far better example of this evil than Nahida.

      From Nahida you see glimmers of hope now and then.

      From kelsshels only evil.

  100. Steve

    The Left made a game KILLING conservatives!

    They are MONSTERS!

  101. Nahida

    No, Kelly, that was actually very serious.

    Steve, forgive her, she didn’t know what she was saying. I’m talking to her now.

  102. kelsshels

    : ( sorry

  103. Steve

    Sorry, Nahida, I can’t forgive.

    People’s lives have been ruined by such stuff.

    I have personally seen people’s lives ruined by such stuff.

    So, Nahida I can’t forgive.

  104. Steve

    SORRY DOESN’T CUT IT!

    GO TO HELL!

  105. kelsshels

    well then what do i have to do?

  106. Nahida

    Steve.

    Steve, are you okay?

  107. Debora

    Yikes.

    Nahida, I don’t think he wants to talk to you right now either. You’d best stay away.

  108. Nahida

    I read about that. It was covered on Feministe.

    I didn’t watch the video Debbie. I can’t.

    • Omarosa

      What do you expect from a Man

      I think all men should be taken away from their children. They shouldn’t have contact with them at all.

      My Mama raised me with only my Granny’s help and I didn’t know who my Daddy was (neither did she). And I turned out well.

      The best thing though would there to be no men. Wouldn’t that be a dream! But at the very least if you want a kid GO TO THE SPERM BANK!

      And if you want to have sex well BUY A SYBIAN!

      No man can compete against that. Not even a Black Man!

      http://www.sybian.com/sybianindex.html

      • Omarosa

        In the book For Yourself, Dr. Lonnie Barbach reports: “Research by Arvalea Nelson indicates that consistently orgasmic women tend to describe themselves as contented, good-natured, insightful, self-confident, independent, realistic, strong, capable, and understanding while non-orgasmic women tend to describe themselves as bitter, despondent, dissatisfied, distrustful, fussy, immature, inhibited, prejudiced, and sulky.”

        Yeah, a Sybian. Makes Males Obsolete.

        In fact if I had my way we would genetically make it so that only a few a few males would be born who we could keep locked up as “donors” and then have most of the people born be women.

        An all woman society. Well I can dream can’t I?

        If one gets bored with the Sybian there’s always the Thrillhammer.

        http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/commentary/sexdrive/2005/06/67719

        Men, or as I call all of them Rapists, need to be for the most part eradicated.

  109. Debora

    I figured. It is beyond disturbing.

  110. Debora

    Nahida, what’s up with that guy on your blog telling you your interpretation is wrong??

    • Nahida

      Ugh, yeah did you SEE THAT??!! He leaves like FIFTY comments and then goes apeshit when they don’t show up the second he submitted them, accusing me of “hiding the truth”–I moderate all comments.

      Jesus Christ. I’m so sick of people coming back and being all like, “I’m an Arab so I have more right to interpret this than you, mere non-Arab.” (He doesn’t even KNOW what I am and asked my ‘nationality’! Which I guess he meant ethnicity.) He ACTUALLY told me I had no right to interpret my own religion! I hate how these kinds of people thing they own Islam! Placing yourself as an intermediary between God is against Islam; funny how they ignore THAT verse but are extra picky about the details for cutting off the hands of thieves!

      • Debora

        Lol he had this weird way of using “please” and “thank you” but being condescending, and then demanding that you show some respect.

        Just like men to feel entitled to spaces.

        Funny he assumed that when you said it was “derived” it was your Arabic that was wrong, even after you told him you meant “related” which is clearly a slip in English.

      • Debora

        wow even HE pulled the “open-minded” thing again…

      • Nahida

        You would think the “superior” Arabs would get a clue about how they practice Islam, since they needed THREE revelations because they messed it up so badly every time! The Bible, Torah, AND the Qur’an!!

      • Debora

        Yes, to be fair it was the Romans who messed up the Bible.

  111. Bill

    Hey, Nahida. I think you might be the same height as my wife.

    SO ARE YOU GOING TO FUCKING SUE ME NOW!

    Feminists are the most despicable, lowlife creatures on the face of the earth.

    Well I am not a CEO so it’s not like you can milk my company out of anything you creep. Nor am I thinking about a run for the Presidency.

    Oh, and yeah, I am a Black Male. So that makes you a racist as well. What you think only white guys can be racists? NOT MY EXPERIENCE!

  112. Omarosa

    Stop groping her through this blog Bill.

    We know how you black men are.

    That is why we only hire black women in our firm.

    All men are rapists. ESPECIALLY BLACK MEN!

    • Nahida

      Steve, I think you read “grouping” as “groping.”

      She wrote ‘grouping’, Steve.

      • Nahida

        Go look. Do you see?

        Oh God, you really did misread the comment itself. I explained it to her wrong then. I thought you were offended because of what she implied, not because you MISREAD her.

        Ugh, I was so *harsh* with her. Way to make me feel bad twice. Now I owe her an apology.

    • kelsshels

      It says GROUPING her, you idiot, not GROPING.

      as in your group her with political parties in your references to workplace hostility.

      Nahida, I TOLD you he misread!

      • kelsshels

        why are you attacking her, it’s ME you MISREAD.

        you’re just GROUPING her with everyone again.

        GROUPING – G R O U P I N G

  113. Omarosa

    Everything is sexual of course

    Men are rapists ALL OF THEM.

    Remember that sister who accused those Duke University (Named after David Duke KKK I bet) Boys of Rape. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Technically they didn’t do it. But why should that matter. THEY WANTED TO DO IT! That’s what counts!

    Actually we should lock all men up for rape. I mean someday they are going to rape someone so why wait!

    • Nahida

      Steve, can you stop this please? You really want to continue after you realized you read “grouping” as “groping”? And she apologized to you for nothing?

      Please, please, please stop it. You’re distressing me.

      • kelsshels

        Nahida, does this surprise you?!

        Let him do what he wants. Let him think I said whatever he wants me to have said.

        Come on roomie, let’s go.

  114. Bill

    Hey Omarosa what about all those people being raped at those “occupy events”

  115. Nahida

    No, Kelly wait.

    Steve use your name! I was actually worried about you, you seemed so enraged. And now you won’t accept that you MISREAD? Grouping as groping? How can you be this callous?

  116. kelsshels

    steve. i had to TEAR that laptop away from her because she was SOBBING.

    do you know how many times she refreshed the page last to see if you would speak to her again after you, you know, MISREAD GROUPING AS GROPING?

    Go to hell.

  117. Steve

    Okay, Nahida if I actually misread the intent of what Kelsshels said, then I do apologize to you.

    I was enraged. I thought she had turned the whole thing sexual as feminists often do.

    God, I don’t even say Good Morning for fear that it will be misinterpreted.

  118. kelsshels

    you didn’t misread the intent dude (well that too i guess) you misread the WORD. it says grouping. With a U.

    and she’s got the hiccups I don’t know when she’s coming back, and I don’t know if I want her to!

    it’s bad enough she has to put up with religious extremists.

  119. Steve

    We were once forced to take “diversity training” where I worked.

    I have never forgiven myself for it. A good person would have resigned.

    I am not a good person. I know that. But I can sure recognize evil in others.

    And Leftists are the most evil people on the face of the earth. Even more evil than Muslim Terrorists. All they can do is kill you. Leftists destroy you from your core outward.

    Most conservatives say Forgive. I say to them you just don’t recognize the Left for what they are. And time and time again I see these conservatives who say forgive destroyed. I was trying to think of the number of people but there has been so many. I also have to separate it from those I have personally seen (I think at least 7 probably more) and those I have seen in the public sphere (too many to count).

    Good has never defeated evil. Good people have, but only when they adopt evil ways.

    • kelsshels

      I am not a good person. I know that.

      Tell Nahida. She still thinks you’re a fucking angel.

      I will NEVER understand it.

      • Debora

        Because she met him when she was 15, and he was good to her then.

        To lighten the mood, Nahida was born in March and it’s also a characteristic of the Pisces woman. :P (do Muslims use astrology? I dont think we’re supposed to either.) once they create a friendship it’s hard for them to leave it.

      • Steve

        Yeah, I am sorry I hurt her.

        She probably isn’t my target. She is really someone who I have admired for a long time her compassion and strength. She has stood where others would just let things past and that is commendable.

        Now if she can move away from this Leftist Feminism trap many fall in with our University system she can indeed make some positive changes in the world.

        I don’t expect her to become a conservative but she needs to stay away from these Leftists. They will destroy her, like they have destroyed so many.

  120. Steve

    Nahida, please forgive me.

    But there’s a reason why I am so ruthless.

    I just pray that your University Experience doesn’t make you into someone I need to be ruthless about.

    I do see signs of hope from you from time to time so I probably don’t need to be as harsh.

  121. Steve

    It is sometimes too easy to forget that there is another human being on the other side of that screen.

    I can’t expect your forgiveness Nahida. But I should express my regret anyway.

  122. Steve

    You are ignoring me Nahida.

    Good for you!

    That is exactly what I deserve.

  123. Steve

    I ask because I know the subject interests you not because I feel you must defend anything.

    I remember going through a Protestantism University I was sometimes expected to defend Catholicism and yeah that was a pretty hard position to be in. Especially since I wasn’t that religious unlike you.

  124. Steve

    Protestant – Lutheran to be precise. So I get people asking you to try to defend stuff that happened 4 or 5 hundred years ago.

  125. Steve

    I was reading some of the comments here:

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/coming-this-fall-all-american-muslim-reality-show-on-tlc/

    And I was thinking how unfair most of them were. I understand these people are real raw from the political stuff going on overseas but I have been fortunate to have Nahida to give me a more balanced perspective.

  126. Steve

    By the way, this doesn’t Represent Glenn Beck’s view. Just the other day he criticized a gun instructor who said he would never teach a Muslim. Oh, they really attacked him for it on the site, but he stood his ground.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/beck-challenges-tx-gun-instructor-over-ad-refusing-to-teach-muslims/

    Part of me thinks that you would like Glenn Beck, Nahida. Yeah he is very concerned about a growing Caliphate, and Sharia Law and all of that (and also he is completely pro Israel) but he does try to stand up for Islam as a religion. And he doesn’t have to given the heat he gets when he doe

  127. kelsshels

    she’s not ignoring you. she’s gone out. i’m not sure where. she hasn’t seen any of your messages.

    i’ll let her know when she comes back, if she wants to talk.

  128. Steve

    No, I respect it if she is ignoring me.

    It is what I deserve.

    Perhaps it would be best that way.

    She really is an incredible human being. She is intelligent and compassionate and strong. I just hope she ends up working with the right side.

  129. Steve

    Perhaps more importantly not end up working for the wrong side.

  130. Steve

    Caution, there is some graphic stuff here.

  131. Steve

    Gosh, and I always thought that Whole Foods was kind of a Lefty Place.

  132. Steve

    And they are just getting warmed up.

    History tells us what happens next.

  133. Steve

    So, no I don’t take this as an idle threat. It has happened before.

  134. kelsshels

    She came back at 1am last night with a bag from victoria’s secret (i guess even feminists go shopping sometimes after running their mascara) pulled out the jammies inside, showered, changed and went to bed.

    she didn’t say anything, she just looked strained, and this morning she left for class before I got up.

    I just want you to know, steve, that this wasn’t a first time. It was a breaking point. i was sitting beside her when she was moderating comments for the norway shootings post. “Now you know I felt on 9/11″?? really, when people are attacked for her religion, THAT’S when you tell her she isn’t an american?

    she blinked back tears then too. because it was from YOU. but she didn’t break then, when I yelled she just said “Hush, he’s just hurt. He doesn’t mean it.” she put your pain before hers, so please stop telling her (if you ever speak to her again) that she isn’t sensitive to your feelings. i don’t think you have ANY idea.

  135. Nahida

    I will never forgive Beck for the sexist crap he said about Palin in response to her saying she respected him, and I don’t even like her. At all. It ruins all his credibility. All of it. It’s inexcusable.

    He makes too many references to the Holocaust. To which he has no right. Anyone comparing their suffering to the Holocaust is pretentious. No matter what happens to Muslims I would never do this, ever. And then he had the audacity to say that people comparing AZ’s crackdown on illegal immigrants to Nazi Germany were over the top.

    For someone who talks about Shariah Law so much, he has no idea what it is. It used to be written by women–A’isha, specifically–and for women, before Muslim men returned to their pre-Islam oppressive behaviors and overturned it completely, misconstruing and erasing it to use it as a political weapon. The way Christianity, a religion for the poor, was stolen by the wealthy of the Roman Empire for the purposes of persecution. Were I to draft a version of it myself, it would have an eerie resemblance to the US Constitution. It is not monolithic, and there are communities (like in Sufism) in which the interpretation is so different you wouldn’t think it were the same religion.

    I (and other Muslim women) can criticize Muslim men and not be Islamophobic for the same reason you can’t say the N* word. (And, by the way, neither can I.) You may not be Islamophobic yourself, or racist, but you are contributing to a global context in which Islamophobia and racism are rampant. It is the same reason rape jokes should never be tolerated, because every time a guy who isn’t a rapist makes what he believes is an innocent rape joke he is confirming the beliefs of an actual rapist in the room that this crime is okay. In a similar line, you need to take social responsibility and stop contributing. Criticism of Muslim men from a marginalized position (from Muslim women who have endured abuse themselves) is not the same. By behaving as though it is, you are diminishing the years of first hand physical and emotional abuse they have endured by comparing it to your petty fits. We can take care of ourselves, we don’t need your “help.” You might want to check what you’re doing before you talk about history repeating itself.

    Glenn Beck has insulted the families of the victims of 9/11. He can do that, because he’s white. That is privilege. I was afraid that if I didn’t laugh at the “I kill you” Muhammad puppet people would think I was a terrorist. That is internalization. That is what Islamophobia does to me.

    So get over yourself.

    They are not “our blacks” or “your blacks.” If you don’t understand the implications of that rhetoric I don’t know what to say to you. I’ve defended black Republicans, and I would NEVER do it with that language. It is triggering, and inconsiderate. And they don’t need my “help.” Not like that. Black people can compare things to lynching. Not white women.

    When I say it’s Islamophobic or misogynist, it is Islamophobic or misogynist. I decide, not you. If you don’t trust me to judge because you think I’m evil, that’s your problem. Get over your sense of entitlement. You don’t live with my identity. If you cared at all, you would keep yourself in check and understand global context. I have no problem criticizing liberals or conservatives for the bullshit they try to pull.

    I also don’t allow anyone on the blog to say ‘white crackers’ (white people so poor they can only afford crackers? that was the origin) or ‘white trash.’ Because classism.

    That man in the video saying that white men only know how to kill and rape needs to stfu about rape. Unless he’s a victim himself, the word rape does not belong in the mouth of a man. Any more than “white trash” belongs in the mouth of a wealthy individual. Rape stats are for women to dissect and interpret. I am so sick of liberal and conservative men using rape to manipulate the interests of women, forcing women who have really been raped to not report it in fear that it will undermine their cause. I’m sick of women being brainwashed into thinking this is noble, a necessary suffering for social justice. Men don’t have any business talking about women who’ve been raped and who did it to them, any more than non-Jewish people do comparing things to the Holocaust. It is trite, uninspired, and in poor taste.

    Marital rape is real. One of my readers, a convert, was raped by her husband, who beat her into it and only wanted it when they had arguments. It was power for him. He couldn’t finish unless she was screaming in pain and anger. If she gave in, he wasn’t aroused. She was traumatized. This went on for years, and after three children she managed to leave. She is still healing.

    Don’t erase her.

    I am sorry you’re afraid to tell people good morning. Nothing will happen from it, I promise.

    • Steve

      I will never forgive Beck for the sexist crap he said about Palin in response to her saying she respected him, and I don’t even like her. At all. It ruins all his credibility. All of it. It’s inexcusable.

      Well I will have to see what he said IN CONTEXT, But as to say about if it “ruins” his credibility or not. The way Beck has credibility the ONLY WAY Beck has credibility, is that you can take statements, predictions he made months, even a year ago or more and and now looking back you can see where these predictions did come to past.

      Proof is in the puddling as the saying goes.

      I don’t take anyone’s word for anything. There have been some I have listened to who what they say doesn’t back up what I have researched I don’t believe them.

      He makes too many references to the Holocaust. To which he has no right. Anyone comparing their suffering to the Holocaust is pretentious…

      He never compared his suffering to the suffering of the Holocaust. What he has done is compared what happened in the Holocaust, events leading up to the Holocaust to what is happening now. And there he is Spot on.

      I didn’t post all the “occupy” videos where the people had signs and were going around saying KILL THE JEW. There were many, many of them though.

      I don’t know if he has ever compared Rossane Barr to George Bernard Shaw but when you have such a prominent woman talking about cutting people’s heads of and the person interviewing her saying yeah, I have been saying that for years, well Holocaust, Killing Fields of Po Pot, Russian Gulags, take your pick!

      • Caitlin

        Any fool could have predicted the Arab Spring. You reap what you sow.

      • Steve

        He predicted that it would spread to here in the States.

        He made that prediction in FEBRUARY.

      • Steve

        The reason he talks about the Holocaust is that he believes that the Jews in particular are being set up to be “the villain” when his predicted world wide economic collapse occurs with the term “Banker” being a code word for Jew.

        And that is EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE SEEING FROM OCCUPY. Hell they come right out and say it. It’s the Jews fault. They must be destroyed.

        How can one NOT compare what is happening now to what happened in the 1930s?

      • Steve

        Caitan, actually if you look back Beck made his prediction even before February, going back several years. When Tunisia happened he warned “Look out this might be the Archduke Ferdinand watch for it to spread.

        And spread it did. When the so called “Arab Spring” happened in Egypt Beck said hold on, not so fast. He saw how there were a lot of international Leftist groups that seemed to be involved. This isn’t merely a domestic originated revolution. There is something larger going on here. And it will spread further. Throughout the Middle East, Europe and Yes, right here in the United States.

        That’s crazy talk people said. It won’t spread here!

        Well when a guy has been proven right again and again and again, regardless of what else you might think about him, you have to admit that he is someone who we must listen too.

        PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING. Can’t argue with success.

      • Steve

        Beck successfully predicted that Tunisa was the Archduke Ferdinand moment.

        He successfully predicted that the “Arab Spring” would spread. And when he said it would people were calling him CRAZY. I am talking about months and month ago.

        He saw this coming for a long time. He became aware of “The Coming Insurrection” a few years back and took them at their word about their intent.

        Here is to sum up what he is claiming.

        http://www.glennbeck.com/2011/02/03/connecting-extreme-socialism-and-extreme-islam/

        1) Groups from the hardcore socialist left, and extreme Islam will work together because of the common enemy of Israel.

        2) Groups from the hardcore socialist left and extreme Islam will work together because of the common enemy of capitalism.

        3) Groups from the hardcore socialist left, and extreme Islam will work together to overturn relative stability, because the in the status quo, they are both ostracized from power and the mainstream in most of the world.

        That I got from something he published FEBRUARY 3rd, 2011.

        And the months following that he has been proven right!

    • Steve

      I am sorry you’re afraid to tell people good morning. Nothing will happen from it, I promise.

      Yeah, right. Who am I to force my views on the morning down other people’s throat? What if they don’t WANT TO HAVE A GOOD MORNING! Seems very intolerant of me to inflict my view of what the morning should be down the throat of others.

      Hell even saying “Morning” as just as statement of fact might offend people. I don’t know how, but it doesn’t matter if I think “morning” is offensive or not. It matters what the person being offended (purposely perhaps) thinks.

  136. Nahida

    And that article you posted from American Thinker is wrong. People are not inherently greedy, flawed, and untrustworthy. You’re not.

    • Steve

      People start off their lives inherently selfish. Can’t blame them. Their very existence is depended upon the assistance of others. They can’t fend for themselves, not at first.

      From there who they become is a part of their environment, their experiences, and yeah to some degree how they react to their environment and experiences. Yeah I believe in a certain degree of free will.

      If their experiences, if their environment proves to them that ultimately the best way to get what they want is to be good, then they will be good. If their experiences and environment and how they react to that teaches the opposite then they will be that way. (I guess you may throw in genetics somewhere too, the whole Nature/Nurture thing).

      I will not go as far as to say people by and large are inherently evil, but they aren’t inherently good either. They are kind of a blank slate.

      But this whole occupy thing proves a critical point. Marx said To each according to their ability to each according to their need. the Gourmet cooks felt like they were being taken advantage of and indeed they were but again, their ability was just going to someone elses “need”(yeah
      “need” tends to get subjective here) so the fact that they didn’t feel they were being compensated either financially or by some emotional fulfillment of being appreciated or whatever shouldn’t have mattered. Well according to Marx it shouldn’t have mattered. What should have mattered was that ability was being transferred to need. But of course human nature dictates otherwise.

      So the only way for Marx to work is if human nature is countermanded. And how does one do so. FORCE. You don’t want to cook gourmet food without compensation – TOUGH. DO SO OR DIE.

      Sure the occupy people haven’t gotten there yet, but if their vision of society happens they will. How do I know? I know because it has happened time and time and time again.

      And like that one Che wearing protester said in one of those videos above you don’t make a omelet without breaking a few eggs!

  137. Steve

    Nahida better be very careful where she goes late at night. As a male I would not go anywhere alone late at night and she is right when she says females are at more risk.

    Also, depending on where she goes there’s a lot of civil unrest going on.

    We live in dangerous times.

    I don’t remember me calling her “not an American”. But I do remember her saying that she had feared that an Norway style attack was imminent in the United States. An isolated, terrible yes, but isolated attack half a world away without a larger organization behind it yet she thought that it was going to motivate people in the US. Meanwhile you had an attack that was organized by a larger group in the US. We did have reason to fear after 9-11, Not all Muslims but some. We really were waiting for the next shoe to drop (and we still are).

    This was the same time the Left in America was trying to paint all Republicans as violent (well they are still doing that but there was a major push). Somehow we were responsible for Jared Lee Loughner

    Well here is the TRUTH about Jared Lee Loughner! .Loughner’s best friend, Zach Osler, said, “He did not watch TV; he disliked the news; he didn’t listen to political radio; he didn’t take sides; he wasn’t on the Left; he wasn’t on the Right.

    But no, someone Jared Lee Loughner was OUR FAULT.

    And then you had what happened in Norway. A cause where one could arguably blame his acts on his religious affiliation (though it first appeared that there were some strange going on with his facebook pages as he had an English one and a Norwegian one and they didn’t really seem to match up.) And the Left uses him to kind of backfill all their lies about the other attacks they previously used to tag us with.

    And then Nahida goes ape-shit about it. Again it was a terrible act but there was no indication it was part of a larger attack that she was going to experience in California. So, for me it was kind of like WTF.

    What we are seeing in America NOW is part of a larger attack. Did you see that Rosanne Barr video where she wanted to cut off the heads of rich people? I take her at her word for that. Look I am not part of the so called 1 percent (I think you must earn $300,000 a year for that, yeah that’s not going to happen any time soon) but I do know what happened in the French Revolution. And I lived enough in the 20th century to remember that as well. Not as much as some. What we see as History, these people were alive for. There are still living people in America who at one time praised Stalin. Less of them now, yeah they are dying off, and also they have quietly changed their tune (well some of them have) years after it mattered, but just because I didn’t live through it, that doesn’t make it less real. I know what these people have done in the past and yeah it scares the shit out of me. Some of these people are the children and, grandchildren of these people, but there are enough of them alive that some of them are the ACTUAL PEOPLE.

    Do you even know that one of Obama’s earliest allies is an avowed terrorist? William Ayers. On 9-11-2001 (just as a coincidence as of course there was no way to coordinate something like this) a news article had him say that he wished he had committed MORE acts of violence.

    Do you even know how many in the Obama administration has praised Mao? Do you even know who Mao is?

    They peg us as the violent ones. Did you see the “ads” where they gleefully kill us with as much gore and blood as possible? And these aren’t acts of “fringe” but of what your side considers as “mainstream”. I can’t even think of anything remotely as violent coming from our side not even something you could loosely (and probably unfairly) connect to being part of us.

    I do take the Left VERY SERIOUSLY and now more than ever yeah, they scare the hell out of me. When you have people seriously talking about chopping peoples heads off (and you see the interviewer agreed with her) well we have seen where it leads. It leads to the French Revolution. It leads to Hitler. It leads to Stalin, It leads to Mao. It leads to the Re-Education camps. It leads to the gas chambers.

    And don’t think it couldn’t happen here. Every day when I turn on the news I see it as more and more likely. Glenn Beck, take him for what he is, he has predicted what was going to occur for at least 2 years, probably more. And first the news media laughs at him and calls him “conspiracy theorists” but as he is proven right time and time again, then they themselves eventually say the same stuff he did months or even years ago. Go back to the beginning of this year. Go back to the so called Arab Spring and what Glenn Beck was saying back then, and not one, not one of the things he said was going to happen, hasn’t turned out to actually happen later this year. How many times do stuff that he predicted months ago have to occur for us to understand that Glenn Beck has a pretty good sense to where this is all leading.

  138. Steve

    Rossane Barr is modern day George Bernard Shaw.

    Back in the day he was all the rage with the progressive types. They couldn’t get enough of him. He is still held in wide respect in academia.

    And he encouraged THE FREAKING HOLOCAUST. And the Left has the nerve to call US Nazis.

    The New York Times helped to bring about Stalin. They gave him cover, one reporter in particular, Walter Duranty totally covered up what Stalin did in Ukraine. Called rumors of what was going on “propaganda”. Said that Stalin was an agrarian reformer who should be praised. And people BELIEVED HIM!

    For that he got a Pulitzer Prize and even though historians have now definitively refuted his reporting (decades after it mattered of course) the New York Times STILL TO THIS DAY defends that Pulitzer.

    Yeah, but what does that matter now? All the people involved are dead. WELL THE NEWSPAPER IS STILL THERE.

    And Today, not History, but as we speak you have a modern day Walter Duranty organizing the insurrection, a New York Times reporter actually involving herself in the movement and spreading lies about it using the so called “credibility” of the New York Times as cover. We do not learn from history do we! Will she get a Pulitzer too? Probably!

    History might be about the past but it indicates where we are going!

  139. Nahida

    Steve, I never wrote about being worried it would happen in the US. I quoted other bloggers for most of that entry. The one you’re thinking of lives in Canada.

    Any time someone say something about all men being rapists, or wanting to chop off the heads of rich people, just assume I disagree, okay? You seem to take everything I am to the extreme.

    • Steve

      or wanting to chop off the heads of rich people, just assume I disagree, okay?

      I know you probably haven’t seen all the videos I have posted as there was just too many but please pay particular attention to the video below.

      The first thing that I would like to point out is that yeah, Whole Foods is a LEFTY place but that didn’t prevent it from being consumed by the violence. Just like if you were ever raped by Bill Clinton (or someone like him) your views will not prevent the Left from destroying you.

      But my real “favorite” part of this video was the guy shouting “you are better than this”, “you are better than this”.

      No, no they aren’t. Anyone with even a basic understanding of history would know that.

      So at the end of the day whether you may disagree doesn’t matter. History is littered with revolutionaries who didn’t understand who they were standing beside.

      Until it was too late. If even then.

      It’s a time for choosing. There is no middle ground here.

      I am not saying you should vote for the Republicans next year. Heck, this thing has gone so far beyond such trivial matters.

      But just remember who Obama is!

      .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWm2ZJbATHc

  140. Nahida

    I should be able to go out at night when I want. Though last night, I wasn’t really in the mood to care about what happened to me.

    • Steve

      Absolute you should but sometimes reality is more important than ignoring the risks just because you should be able to do something.

      Think about it as a pedestrian who has the right of way. Just because a pedestrian has the right of way it doesn’t mean the pedestrian should just walk out in front of a on coming truck because you “have the right of way”/

      Life is unfair.

      I should be able to go around in any neighborhood at any time of the day or night, but I would be stupid if I would enforce that right in certain neighborhoods.

      • Nahida

        Not true. Pedestrians don’t always have the right of way. There’s jaywalking. That’s illegal.

        Besides, it’s not an unalienable right.

        I will always have the right to walk on public property without being assaulted. Assault, rape, and murder are always wrong. This is a God-given right and I don’t care if I go down fighting for it.

        And have a little faith in humanity, Steve! Things are always changing, they turn out okay. If you lose all good fighting evil what’s there left to protect?

      • Steve

        The 20th Century would prove otherwise.

        That was a century of BLOOD. It is fitting that communists are referred to as REDS!

      • Steve

        If you look at the 20th century you can’t have any faith in humanity.

        I don’t remember the 1960s but I sure remember its aftermath.

        Hell we are still experiencing it’s aftermath.

        Bill Ayers, people of his generation, they know that this could be their last chance. And now that they have their guy in the White House they are going to take it ALL THE WAY!

      • Nahida

        How do you know it was better BEFORE the 60s?

        It sucked. People couldn’t financially support their families! Poverty rate was at 22.5%. How do you know it isn’t better now? Even in this economy it isn’t at that level.

      • Steve

        You can’t imagine how much hope there was when I was going to college.

        The Berlin Wall had fallen. It looked like a new day had dawned.

        Then everything turned to crap.

        I blame Bush. Oh there’s others too of course too numerous to name but it seemed to all start with Bush. You know the party forced Reagan to have him as his running mate.

        And now next year it looks like it’s Romney. Damn, we might as well not even hold an election. I know I likely won’t vote.

      • Steve

        It sucked. People couldn’t financially support their families! Poverty rate was at 22.5%. How do you know it isn’t better now? Even in this economy it isn’t at that level.

        Oh, it will get there, and worse.

        Glenn Beck has predicted it will and he hasn’t been wrong yet.

        And when it does get that bad we are all going to blame the Jews. Just like before. The seeds of that are being sowed right now.

      • kelsshels

        what was supposed to happen? if the poverty level was that high, the 60s were necessary. are you saying it’d be best if they never happened and it stayed that high?

        how did you envision it?

      • kelsshels

        hey, it looks like south park has an episode on OWS…

      • Nahida

        …that show is SICK. It’s the most disgusting, vile, vomit-inducing type of humor in all of existence. All slapstick.

        I can’t stand people who watch it, please don’t tell me my own roommate is one of them.

      • kelsshels

        Hah, don’t worry i just noticed from google

      • Steve

        kelsshels right now I am more worried about the 1930s than the 1960s.

        Because that is where we are going, but even WORSE.

  141. kelsshels

    Yeah I made a comment as she was leaving about how she shouldnt go out like that (she was covered but she looked… really hot) and she just glared at me and left.

    .________.

  142. Caitlin

    This is ridiculous. Why do you explode the disagreements to unbelievable proportions?

    You both agree on stuff, concentrate on it. Though Nahida, I think you are wasting your time.

  143. Nahida

    Steve, look! THERE IS A MAN WHO TALKS TO HIS CAT!

    http://louisvsrick.tumblr.com/

    Adoraabbleeee.

    This alone is proof of inherent goodness.

  144. kelsshels

    all i’ve seen here is steve descending to their level. this was a trainwreck, but im done watching.

  145. Steve

    The Coming Insurrection is a French work (although it has become extremely influential in the North American anarchist scene) that hypothesizes the “imminent collapse of capitalist culture”.[1] Written by The Invisible Committee, an anonymous group of contributors (attributed to the Tarnac Nine by the French police), the book was first published in 2007 by French company La Fabrique.

    The book is divided into two parts. The first attempts a complete diagnosis of the totality of modern capitalist civilization, moving through what the Invisible Committee identify as the “seven circles” of alienation: “self, social relations, work, the economy, urbanity, the environment, and to close civilization”. The latter part of the book begins to offer a prescription for revolutionary struggle based on the formation of communes, or affinity group-style units, in an underground network that will build its forces outside of mainstream politics, and attack in moments of crisis – political, social, environmental – to push towards anti-capitalist revolution. The insurrection envisioned by the Invisible Committee will revolve around “the local appropriation of power by the people, of the physical blocking of the economy and of the annihilation of police forces”.

    —-

    So forgive me for just taking the Left at their word when it comes to their intentions. History has taught me I could ill afford to do otherwise.

    No one took Hitler at his world when he laid out his intentions. He wrote a whole book, just like these modern day Leftists did, laid it all out what he was planning to. No one believed him – well not enough people did. And the rest is History!

    So, yeah I take Leftists at their word when it comes to their intentions.

  146. Steve

    This was Two years ago.

    So, yeah want to know why I see Glenn Beck as credible.

    HE PREDICTED WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW TWO YEARS AGO.

    At the time, they called him crazy. It wasn’t going to happen here they said.

    Well they were wrong, and Beck was right.

    The proof is in the puddling.

  147. Steve

    I see him among the protesters.

    But what’s puzzling you is the nature of my game…

    Nope, I think I pretty well get the game plan. Seen it played out many times before

  148. Steve

    The Weathermen grew out of the Revolutionary Youth Movement (RYM) faction of SDS. It took its name from the lyric “You don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows”, from the Bob Dylan song “Subterranean Homesick Blues”. You don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows was the title of a position paper they distributed at an SDS convention in Chicago on June 18, 1969. This founding document called for a “white fighting force” to be allied with the “Black Liberation Movement” and other radical movements to achieve “the destruction of US imperialism and achieve a classless world: world communism.”

  149. Steve

    This is the Nature of their Game.

    Nahida, I posted a lot tonight but this is the KEY VIDEO YOU SHOULD SEE!

  150. Steve

    No, I take these people quite seriously indeed!

  151. kelsshels

    http://www.womanist-musings.com/2011/11/occupy-movement-is-not-as-progressive.html

    count on womanist musings to cover what mainstream feminism won’t

    and she’s visiting her mom for the religious holiday, she probably won’t be here

  152. Steve

    But occupy IS Progressive!

    Progressive is the term they used in the early 20th century. But over the years as people started seeing them for what they were well of course people didn’t like what were seeing. Progressives were becoming very unpopular.

    So, they needed a image makeover. I am not quite sure when they started to do this but they started saying, oh we aren’t progressive. We are LIBERALS. Of course this was as deceitful as them calling their movement “progressive”. Socialism has never brought progress. And of course “liberals” had nothing in common with John Locke, Adam Smith, et al.

    But for most of my life that’s what these people were called “Liberals”.

    Then in 2008 I think, when asked if she was a Liberal, Hillary Clinton responded, no I am a “progressive”. The term “Liberal” had worn out its usefulness. Time for another makeover.

    So I guess we have gone full circle. Everything old is new again. If they want to remind people of their past GOOD! The so called progressives of the early 20th century did some very bad things.

    And this isn’t Republican vs Democrat because our first Progressive President was actually Teddy Roosevelt who himself was actually a Republican.

    But Progressive, liberal, whatever. They Left uses this little name game of theirs to deceive. But the saying goes a Rose by any other name still smells as sweet. Or in this case, a Leftist regardless of what happen to call themselves at any point of history still brings great evil.

    So, I might think the term “Progressive” is deceitful in that it implies progress when that’s not where it leads, as the term was used in the early 20th century and how the term has been brought back into vogue by the likes of Hillary Clinton the Occupy thing IS THEIR MOVEMENT!

    And what we are seeing now is what we always see from such movements. This is what we saw from them in the 1960s, this is what we saw from them in the 1930s, this what we see from them time and time again in their history. Heck we can even go back to the French Revolution. Roseane Barr sure wants to.

    • Steve

      kelsshels you even said Wow this is just like the 1960s.

      Yeah it is! The same type of Leftists, some even the SAME EXACT LEFTISTS who used the same tactics back then as they are using now.

      So, yeah I loathe the term Progressive. Although I hate the term Liberal more as they STOLE that term. I am the true Liberal (in the spirit of John Locke, Adam Smith et al). So if you want to say they aren’t “progressive” in that they have never brought about progress, just blood and death, then I am with you. But if you want to say that Occupy isn’t part of the movement that once called themselves Progressives, then called themselves Liberals, and now are back to calling themselves Progressives again, that’s a lie. This is a leftist movement. And we have seen where it has led before. TO THE GUILLOTINES! TO THE GAS CHAMBERS! TO THE KILLING FIELDS!

  153. kelsshels

    hey, i watched that video.

    those groups he talks about have NO POWER. and they were originally established to protect powerless people, like women and the poor. even after their corruption they don’t have majority support at all. it would be like being paranoid about nazis.

    • Steve

      People have underestimated such movements before.

      It has always been to their regret.

      Hell, Hitler wrote a whole book telling the world what he was planning to do, but the world didn’t believe him did he.

      Similarly this The Coming Insurrection book totally lays out what they have planned for us.

      “underground network that will build its forces outside of mainstream politics, and attack in moments of crisis – political, social, environmental – to push towards anti-capitalist revolution.”

      But this isn’t the only book that lays out the Left’s game plan. Saul Alinsky, generally considered to be the founder of modern community organizing, laid it all out decades ago in his book “Rules for Radicals.”

      Community organizing, hmm! Why does that term sound so familiar?

      So, no when someone like Roseane Barr calls for bringing back the Guillotines, Yeah I take her at her word for that. She is far from the only one over at occupy saying such violent things. It’s kind of the only coherent message they got over at occupy. And they have decades, no they have centuries of history to back those threats up.

      So, no I take them at their word when it comes to their intent.

    • Steve

      You actually saw some of these groups at the Egyptian revolution. Which was odd since this was supposed to have been just a spontanious domestic uprising. So why all these foreign Leftist groups?

      These groups are well financed! Well Organized. And they have been planning this for a long time. The “useful idiots” on the streets might not realize this, but the ones organizing it do. And some of the people are indeed from the 1960s if not before.

      Neo-Nazis, if you are like talking about some Aryan nations organization in the US well they aren’t well funded. They don’t have some billionaire financing them. Nor do they have the numbers. And if Occupy has proven anything, it’s that yeah, they have the numbers. I DON”T DOUBT THAT!

      This is a long one but there’s some good questions raised in this video.

      • Steve

        From what I heard Nazis HAVE joined the Occupy movement.

        Must be their common hatred of those Jewish Bankers.

  154. kelsshels

    &it’s not a name game everyone knows liberal=progressive

  155. Steve

    Liberal=Progressive=Leftist=Marxist.

  156. kelsshels

    but there are leftists who arent marxists

    i guess what im looking for is a solution. it seems the right only critisizes an ideology, and only the extreme end of it which is on the fringe and has little power. even leftists hate whats going on in OWS, like that link, and there are others. so what should happen instead? instead of OWS? what would conservatives do to protect the disappearing middle class?

    and the same thing that happens to women are happening to men o.O

    http://jezebel.com/5854281/can-men-handle-being-ogled

    i do not approve of this. it needs to stop happening to women to make things fair, not happen to both.

    • Steve

      These people are calling for world socialism.

      And you say that some leftists don’t like what is happening at Occupy and I am not calling it OWS (Occupy Wall Street) because well they aren’t only protesting on Wall Street anymore are they! Well, they might not like it but it’s what these movements turn into, time after time after time.

      Nothing new. You can go back as far as the French Revolution to see this in play. But of course few learn from history.

  157. Steve

    Even if you support killing rich people, that isn’t what ends up happening in the end.

    During the Rein of Terror the Revolutionary Tribunal summarily condemned thousands of people to death by the guillotine, while mobs beat other victims to death. Sometimes people died for their political opinions or actions, but many for little reason beyond mere suspicion, or because some others had a stake in getting rid of them. Among people who were condemned by the revolutionary tribunals, about 8 percent were aristocrats, 6 percent clergy, 14 percent middle class, and 72 percent were workers or peasants accused of hoarding, evading the draft, desertion, rebellion, and other purported minimal crimes.

  158. kelsshels

    oh cmon Steve you don’t hate the left you hate what the left *eventually becomes* ..the extreme.

    and it won’t get there. we’re past that

    things cant stay the way they are. or either me or my roommate is actually going to have to sell a kidney. xD

  159. Steve

    No, I hate the Left in ALL IT’S FORMS! From the little destruction I have seen them do all the time to their great destruction.

    And before you support OWS (as you call it) FIRST answer these questions:

  160. Steve

    I still like just calling it “occupy”. Because they don’t JUST want to occupy Wall Street. They want to occupy everywhere and everyone!

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